Aerial View : Pay Matrix (Defence Forces Personnel

Saturday 21 November 2015

Pay Matrix (Defence Forces Personnel - Except MNS)

Pay Matrix (Defence Forces Personnel - Except MNS)

Pay Band	5200-20200			9300-34800					15600-39100			37400-67000				67000- 79000	75500- 80000	80000	90000
Grade Pay	2000	2400	2800	3400	4200	4600	4800	5400	5400	6100	6600	8000	8700	8900	10000
Entry Pay (EP)	8460	9910	11360	12700	13500	17140	18150	20280	21000	22960	25980	45400	48900	52290	53000	67000	75500	80000	90000
Level	3	4	5	5A	6	7	8	9	10	10B	11	12A	13	13A	14	15	16	17	18
Index	2.57	2.57	2.57	2.62	2.62	2.62	2.62	2.62	2.67	2.67	2.67	2.57	2.57	2.57	2.72	2.72	2.72	2.81	2.72
1	21700	25500	29200	33300	35400	44900	47600	53100	56100	61300	69400	116700	125700	134400	144200	182200	205400	225000	250000
2	22400	26300	30100	34300	36500	46200	49000	54700	57800	63100	71500	120200	129500	138400	148500	187700	211600
3	23100	27100	31000	35300	37600	47600	50500	56300	59500	65000	73600	123800	133400	142600	153000	193300	217900
4	23800	27900	31900	36400	38700	49000	52000	58000	61300	67000	75800	127500	137400	146900	157600	199100	224400
5	24500	28700	32900	37500	39900	50500	53600	59700	63100	69000	78100	131300	141500	151300	162300	295100
6	25200	29600	33900	38600	41100	52000	55200	61500	65000	71100	80400	135200	145700	155800	167200	211300
7	26000	30500	34900	39800	42300	53600	56900	63300	67000	73200	82800	139300	150100	160500	172200	217600
8	26800	31400	35900	41000	43600	55200	58600	65200	69000	75400	85300	143500	154600	165300	177400	224100
9	27600	32300	37400	42200	44900	56900	60400	67200	71100	77700	87900	147800	159200	170300	182700
10	28400	33300	38100	43500	46200	58600	62200	69200	73200	80000	90500	152200	164000	175400	188200
11	29300	34300	39200	44800	47600	60400	64100	71300	75400	82400	93200	156800	168900	180700	193800
12	30200	35300	40400	46100	49000	62200	66000	73400	77700	84900	96000	161500	174000	186100	199600
13	31100	36400	41600	47500	50500	64100	68000	75600	80000	87400	98900	166300	179200	191700	205600
14	32000	37500	42800	48900	52000	66000	70000	77900	82400	90000	101900	171300	186400	197500	211800
15	33000	38600	44100	50400	53600	68000	72100	80200	84900	92700	105000	176400	190100
16	34000	39800	45400	51900	55200	70000	74300	82600	87400	95500	108200	181700	195800
17	35000	41000	46800	53500	56900	72100	76500	85100	90000	98400	111400	187200
18	36100	42200	48200	55100	58600	74300	78800	87700	92700	101400	114700	192800
19	37200	43500	49600	56800	60400	76500	81200	90300	95500	104400	118100
20	38300	44800	51100	58500	62200	78800	83600	93000	98400	107500	121600
21	39400	46100	52600	60300	64100	81200	86100	95800	101400	110700	125200
22	40600	47500	54200	62100	66000	83600	88700	98700	104400	114000	129000
23	41800	48900	55800	64000	68000	86100	91400	101700	107500	117400	132900
24	43100	50400	57500	65900	70000	88700	94100	104800	110700	120900	136900

62 comments:

Anonymous22 November 2015 at 07:48
Sir,
The, Index( Row 5 in the above table) determined to fit the Entry Level Pay for Lt.Col, Col and Brig is the same, at a value of 2,57.
The argument given by the 7CPC at Paras 5.1.20 and 5.2.8 is that there was a marked jump( disproportionate increase) in the 6 CPC Bands while entering PB 4 .
and the Index was therefore lowered from 2.67 to 2.57 for GP of 8700 and the same is also applicable to GP of 8000.
But when the Index for GP of 8900 is seen, the Civil Matrix has an Index of 2.67 and the Defence Matrix has an Index of 2.57.
Shouldn't the index for the same GP in the civil and Defence be the same?
ReplyDelete
Replies
Justin N Christian22 November 2015 at 09:15
the level 5 grade pay 2800 entry pay for sgt/hav/po shows as 29200.... the 6cpc entry pay was 9300 + 2800=12100*2.57=31097=31100.....it seems the matrix has anomalies...
ReplyDelete
Replies
Justin N Christian22 November 2015 at 09:37
the matrix level index1 shows entry pay in the rank....in level 5 in air force the promotion to the rank of sgt is as per trade in some trades(radio/radar) it is as early as 9 yrs and by 15 th yr they become jwo where as in some trades is as late as 13 th yr (wpn/air frame/engine) then how entry pay is worked out???? the 7cpc has taken data from cgda... have the 7 cpc verified the correctness of data????
ReplyDelete
Replies
Dinesh22 November 2015 at 10:29
The Commission also wrongly observes that a Committee of Secretaries did not accept the merger of Rank Pay with Basic Pay and states that the Supreme Court has also upheld this view. This is incorrect. The Supreme Court has, on the contrary, upheld that Rank Pay forms a part of Basic Pay. It may be recalled that the Rank Pay had been carved out of Basic itself.
ReplyDelete
Replies
Aerial View22 November 2015 at 11:13
Sir,

Documented facts (available elsewhere on this blog) are as follows:-

1. It was a High Powered Committee (HPC) comprising Def Secy, Secy (Expenditure) and Secretary Def/Fin convened on the suggestion of the then Solicitor General to provide grounds to challenge the Supreme Court's order of 8.3.2010 in TP (C) No. 56 of 2007. The merger of rank pay with Basic Pay was not agreed to by the HPC and was quoted in Addl Affidavit dated 15 Nov 2010 at Para 30 (b).

2. The Supreme Court was in agreement with the order of the Division Bench of the High Court of Kerala in WP 518 of 1999 which ordered that Rank Pay should not be deducted from the amount of re-fixation arrived at after 1.1.1986.

3. Neither of the judgments stated that Rank Pay is part of Basic Pay. It was a MoD order dated Feb 2000 that stated so.

4. It was the interpretation of Lt Col (retd) N K Nair & RDOA in the Contempt Petition No. 328 of 2013 that Rank Pay had been carved out of Basic Pay. This petition was dismissed earlier this year.

5. Services HQ picked up the expression "carved out of" and included it in their Joint Services Memorandum. It was not agreed to by the then AG when he gave his opinion dated 03 Sep 2013.
ReplyDelete
Replies
corona822 November 2015 at 12:37
Issues arising from this matrix too may remain subject of debate and discussion for the months to come. https://goo.gl/vF5GdU
ReplyDelete
Replies
selvaraj veeraswamy22 November 2015 at 16:17
Sad that 7 CPC did no justice to the selection grade Lt Col VETERANS WHO ACTUALLY LEAD THEIR BNS IN ALL MAJOR WARS THAT INDIA FOUGHT AFTER 1947. PLACING THEM WITH 13 YEARS TIME SCALE Lt Cols is a cruel joke.
ReplyDelete
Replies
batsy22 November 2015 at 17:35
This is civilian pay matrix!!! Pl check.
ReplyDelete
Replies
batsy22 November 2015 at 18:01
Sorry for the error. But if you check entry in 13A. The last entry of 218... is erroneous as in the GP 8900 13A the last entry shd be 197500 and not 218200. It is this entry which made me point out the error.
ReplyDelete
Replies
batsy22 November 2015 at 18:18
Why I have pasted Para 5.1.39 of 7cpc report below is because Maj Navdeep Singh had pointed out in of of his posts in another blog that the pay scales of Brig and below upto level 12 have been depressed. Another reason is because a Brig is proceeding on pension/serving with a Basic Pay of 80000 which takes him to a Basic Pay of 205600 which is not in the Matrix.This is a case where the matrix could be devp as per requirement as given below- as per my understanding. The Matrix is going to go bust on 1.1.16 would not be a matter of pride for Justice AK Mathur!!!

.Para 5.1.39 In the true spirit of having open ended pay scales the span of levels 1 to 11 has been kept at 40 years. This has been done to ensure that no stagnation takes place. However, level12 and beyond, the span of successive levels has been reduced so that the maximum at each level is lower than the maximum pay at the subsequent level. This has been done as a result of capping of maximum pay at HAG+ (level 16) at a lower stage as compared to the Apex pay at
level 17. Since Apex pay at level 17 is fixed at ₹2,25,000, a person residing in the previouslevel (level 16) should not draw equivalent or more than the apex pay, the maximum pay hasbeen restricted to ₹2,24,400. Similarly the process has been followed until level 11 keeping in mind the maximum pay drawn by the person in the next higher level. Accordingly, the span of levels beyond level 11 progressively reduces from 39 years at level 11 to 4 years at level 16. Itis important to note that the end-points of any column do not signify the end points of any traditional pay scale. Hence in any kind of calculation which attempts to work with the
“maximum pay of a particular pay scale” it would be inappropriate, even incorrect, to pick thelast figure of the column to be so. As has been stated earlier in this paragraph the column spans have been kept at 40 to cater to persons who may enter a particular level at any stage and may have resided in the level for a fair length of time. The end-points of the column, representing the possible highest and lowest pay in that level, may not be treated as the maximum and
minimum of any closed pay scale, as used to prevail prior to the implementation of the VICPC.
ReplyDelete
Replies
Unknown22 November 2015 at 20:59
As per para 5.2.22 in page 92, MSP to be considered as Basic Pay for the purpose of commutation of pension. So the pension should be 50% of the multiplying factor (ie 2.57) of the total of existing Basic pay + Gde pay and the present MSP as recommended. Is is correct
ReplyDelete
Replies
RC22 November 2015 at 21:10
Sir,

The 7th CPC has recommended the slab system for disability pension. This will result decrease in disability pension being received by the disabled veterans. A real example is of a Lt Col in receipt of Rs 4972/- as disability pension. With DA it comes to Rs 10888/-. As per the new recommendations it will get reduced to Rs 9000/-. Maj Navdeep has also highlighted it giving the example of a Lt Gen and comparing it with his equivalent in CPMF.

The recommendation is not only biased against the services/veterans but results in a situation where an existing allowance gets reduced for veterans. Probably an unique recommendation of existing allowance getting reduced while every other allowance goes up.

Regards,

RC
ReplyDelete
Replies
Aerial View22 November 2015 at 21:20
For the sake of facts, no opinion/calculations etc will be offered till relevant Govt approval of 7 CPC recommendations and SAI/SNI/SAFI are issued.

Thank you.
ReplyDelete
Replies
Unknown23 November 2015 at 09:04
Normally any benefit given is never taken back. Only enhancement is made orSS Status Quo maintained. However ,the 7thCPC has recommended the removal of free rations for Officers in peace areas and also abolished Furlough. Furlough is generally used in an emergency when other leave is exhausted. If accepted this will be a retrograde step and does not auger well for the forces' morale . This is the time the three chiefs has to take a call as it directly affects serving Personell.
ramani
ReplyDelete
Replies
corona823 November 2015 at 09:50
Sir,

Till such time approvals come through, the blog could throw up possible anomalies, enabling stakeholders to launch processes with a view to obtain resolutions.

I, for one, have still not been able to understand how the matrix will be reconciled with OROP.

A Lt Col who got, say, 7 increments before he retired with a service of 26 years in 2002, would only reach a point in level 12A of the matrix corresponding to 11+7=18 years of service by using the matrix. What about the "equal service" component of OROP?

The only way the Lt Col could get the full benefit of "same service" condition of OROP would be if he availed the number of increments (15) required to reach his total years of service (11+15=26) and not the 7 he had earned when the pay band did not start at 11 years of service. The notional pay point for a Lt Col with 26 years of service would be with 15 increments after 01 Jan 2016.

Isn't that the point in the matrix where OROP would require his pension to be fixed?
ReplyDelete
Replies
Anonymous23 November 2015 at 20:18
UNJUSTIFIED SHOCKERS for DEFENCE & JUSTIFIED BONANZA for
POLICE, thanks to the 7th PAY COMMISSION
1. Top end of basic pay of defence personnel has been depressed. (Earlier it was equal for the defence and the civilian counterparts.)
2. Demand for 75% last pay drawn as pension has been rejected by saying that the MSP counts for pension. (P 402)

3. Furlough leave and free ration to defence officers to be abolished.

4. 100 units of free electricity to defence personnel to be abolished.

5. Funeral allowance to defence personnel to be abolished.

6. Technical pay tier 2 for defence officers abolished (No change in technical pay tier 1). Flight charge certificate allowance abolished. P 245

7. Option given to defence staff to join NPS. (P 398). Defence personnel should contribute for their pensions. (P399.)

8. Demand for upgradation of Group X Sgts/Havaldaars to diploma payscale rejected.

9. COBRA allowance for Police Forces brought at par with Special Forces Allowance for defence personnel.

10. Ex-gratia allowance for police forces enhanced and brought at par with those for defence personnel.

11. One additional free railway warrant to be given to police forces in hard areas on the pattern of defence forces.

12. Military Service Pay of defence personnel not to count for HRA and transfer grant.

13. Gallantry award monthly allowance enhanced for Coast Guard. No change for defence gallantry awards.

14. Special duty allowance for the IAS/IPS at 30 % of basic pay to far exceed the Siachen/submarine/flying allowance. A Joint Secretary drawing basic pay of Rs 182700 will get this allowance while getting posted in North-East/Ladakh as Rs54810 whereas the siachen/flying/submarine allowance has been capped at Rs 31500.

15. Return to slab based disability pension system may not be beneficial. It is likely to result in a substantial reduction

16. MSP worked out and recommended by the three Services HQ and ESM was 62% of basic pay for JCOs & ORs and 52% of basic pay for Officers based on various factors. The MSPs recommended (15500,10800, 5200, 3600) for commissioned officers, MNS, JCOS/NCOs/ORs, NCs(E) are too less to what has been worked out.

17. One rank, one pension which was the exclusive right of the defence services has now been granted to the civilians including the police forces.

18. Our differential in pension which existed in 1973 ie Pension 70-75% of LPD for JCOs & ORs & 50% of LPD for Officers, while for Civilians it was 33% has not been restored. This differential should have been mentioned by the 7th CPC which has not been done. Accordingly, the Pension of JCOs & ORs should be 90% of LPD and for Officers it would be 70%.

19. Not-so-good intentions! Retiring age of sepoy has been shown as 42-48, of Naik has been shown as 49 and of Havaldaar has been shown as 49, of Nb Sub as 52., of AC/LAC has been shown as 52. P397. P398 says they retire after their term of engagement. It is not mentioned that majority of defence personnel retire at 35.
ReplyDelete
Replies
Colonel23 November 2015 at 20:47
Corona 8- Its a new subject for us all. What we are doing is the result of application of mind and following the path of common sense. Please don't mix the 'Pay Matrix' with OROP. As I see, once OROP sees light of the day, the resultant Quotient(new basic pension- based on average of 2013) multiplied by the factor of 2.57 will be higher, possibly in all pre-2016 retirees. That takes care of your 26 years of service. Col Dutt
ReplyDelete
Replies
Kanny23 November 2015 at 20:47
Sir,
A substantive Cdr promoted in 1993 gets promoted to a substantive Capt(IN) in Jan 2003 and paid Cmde in Jan 2004, and retires in May 2004. His pension would be 134400/2.
If not promoted to Cmde his pension as a Capt would be 137400/2
If not promoted to Capt rank, his Cdr's pension would be 161500/2
Could you please this anamoly ? It seems quite ridiculous!
Warm Regards
ReplyDelete
Replies
Anonymous24 November 2015 at 09:03
7th Pay Commission reduces the Max. Pay of defence personnel, Cunning move, Gives Military Service
Pay (MSP), Reduces basic pay. But the net effect is still reduction in max. total pay. The edge given by 6th Pay
Commission in max. pay to defence personnel has been replaced with reduction in max. pay. In 4th Pay Commission,
also the dirty game was played. Rank pay was given but basic pay/status was reduced. History repeats itself.
MAX . BASIC PAY (+ grade pay) after 6 CPC AFTER 6CPC, Edge of max. defence pay over civil MAX . BASIC PAY after 7 CPC AFTER 7CPC, REDUCTION of max. defence pay w.r.t. civil
RANK / GRADE PAY Defence Civil Defence
Incl MSP Without MSP With MSP
+125% DA Defence Civil Defence
Incl MSP Without MSP With MSP
+ Nil
DA
Sepoy/2000 22200 22200 24200 Nil 4500 43100 48500 48300 5400 200
Naik/2400 22600 22600 24600 Nil 4500 50400 56800 55600 6400 1200
Havaldar/2800 23000 23000 25000 Nil 4500 57500 64700 62700 7200 2000
Nb Sub/4200 39000 39000 41000 Nil 4500 70000 78800 75200 8800 3600
Sub/4600 39400 39400 41400 Nil 4500 88700 99800 93900 11100 5900
Sub Maj/4800 39600 39600 41600 Nil 4500 94100 105900 99300 11800 6600
Lt/5400 44500 44500 50500 Nil 13500 110700 124500 126200 13800 1700
Capt/6100 45200 51200 Nil 13500 120900 136400
Maj/6600 45700 45700 51700 Nil 13500 136900 150800 152400 13900 1600
Lt Col/8000 75000 81000 Nil 13500 192800 208700
Col/8700 75700 75700 81700 Nil 13500 195800 214100 211300 18300 2800
Brig/8900 75900 75900 81900 Nil 13500 197500 216600 213000 19100 3600
MajGen/10000 77000 77000 Nil 13500 218200 218200 Nil
Complied by Arvind Vig. Errors, if any may be intimated to akvig.pec.iit.xlri@gmail.com
ReplyDelete
Replies
Unknown24 November 2015 at 12:04
Sir, you are a master at creating confusion. The above was used by Maj Gen Satbir Singh (retd) in the form of a table. But you concealed the fact that Sepoy with GP 2000 was placed at Rs 43100 at Index 24 (page 89) and the Rs 47100 you quote for a civilian employee is at Index 27 (page 75).

Services HQ or IESM did not propose the hike in pension that you quote.

Services HQ proposed hike in MSP as follows: - 30% for NC(E) & ORs, 25% for JCOs, 20% for Lt to Col, 15% for Brig and above and 70% of the above for MNS Officers.

Please tell us the truth.

ReplyDelete
Replies
Col MS Raju24 November 2015 at 12:51
Dear Sirs & Friends,

Please do not mix up 7th CPC and OROP and its tables which are yet to be issued.

Keep sending grievances to DESW with ref to their OROP implementation letter of 07th Nov 2015 in which they committed that the OROP tables and instructions to PDAs for payment of arrears will be issued soon. So far they/PCDA(P) have not issued such tables and instructions. Please keep sending grievances asking them for issue of OROP tables and instructions for PDAs as the word "soon" does not mean weeks and months what to talk of years and decades. I have already sent strong grievance to DESW. I know they wont reply for three months, if every one sends grievances then they may woke up. Why I am asking for OROP tables is, OROP need to be implemented from 01 Jul 2014 where as 7th CPC will be implemented from 01 Jan 2016. OROP tables will help us claiming 7th CPC pension not in pay metrics but in working out pension at fitment formula of last pension drawn x 2.57. This is one fact. The other expectation is, there is a meeting and railwaymen's strike on 27 Nov 2015 to increase the fitment formula to 3.84 which may not be accepted by the govt in toto but it may go to 3 from 2.57.

Let us keep pressing hard for OROP tables first, which will help us by getting 7th cpc pension in the formula of last pay/pension drawn x fitment formula (either 2.57 or the increased one because of railwaymen striking all over India).

7th CPC pay matrics have been made by calculating starting basic of 6th cpc + Grade Pay * 2.57 and then MSP is also calculated in the same formula ie 600 (Offrs) * 2.57 = 15,420 & rounded to 15,500/-. The amount arrived in formula one of 7th cpc will remain short of the amount fetching in formula 2 (ie last basic plus grade pay x 2.57 plus last MSP x 2.57). Please try yourself.

Lets us quietly wait for OROP table which will be implemented from 01 Jul 2014. If the govt issues same pay matrics of 7th cpc as OROP tables, they can be challenged with what the people proceeding on pension after 01 Jan 2016 are getting the pension.

Second thing is that in 7th CPC pension formula one, says last pay drawn plus the increments drawn. What does increments mean, drawn or earned. Lt Cols before 24 Dec 2004 were given Lt Col basic after completion of 17 years service (selection grade) and time scale Lt Cols got it after 21 years, but after 24 Dec 2004 every officer who completed 13 years service have been given Lt Col basic pay. Now the question is whether the increments drawn or earned after 13 years service. If an officer is served for 25 years he earns 12 increments with Lt Col pay. In 7th CPC recommendation it was wrongly worded which says the increments drawn where as it should be increments earned. Increments earned may have been drawn or may not have been drawn, irrespective of whether the increments drawn or not the pension be fixed on the basis of increments earned (the latest entitlements).

Rest is for your logical thinking.
ReplyDelete
Replies
corona824 November 2015 at 19:13
@Col MS Raju : "..Don't mix up..."

There we go again.

Could you kindly refer my previous comment?

7CPC has already served a OROP cocktail "mixed up" with a new pension matrix in black and white and here are readers posting long messages with advice to others to not mix OROP with 7 CPC.

I think the wake up call has already been issued and we'd better gear up to start thinking about all manner of anomalies arising. I have speculated about those on my blog. http://bit.ly/1PLUjBt
ReplyDelete
Replies
Anonymous25 November 2015 at 06:58
@corona8.
sir,
Just curious.
In an earlier comment you had indicated that the Lt. Col. pay column in the matrix started at 11 Years.
How did you infer that ?
ReplyDelete
Replies
Col MS Raju25 November 2015 at 14:27
Dear Carona8

What I said in my comment is about the increments in the drawn in the rank held at the time of retirement.

Now Penmil has raised similar point on your previous comment of 11 years for Lt Col.

My submission is all old termed Lt Cols who became Lt Cols by selection and time scale prior to 24 Dec 2004 are due for fixation of pay with the increments right from fourteenth year of service. That is why I brought in my comment about "increments earned" & "Increments Drawn". We are entitled for increments earned right from 14th year of service and not simply what we drawn from 17 or 18th year of service (for Selection Grade) and and completion of 21 years of service (for time scale).

I was in service when all Majs with 13 years of service were promoted to Lt Cols under AVS commission wef 24 Dec 2004. But my pay (I was selection grade Lt Col from 15th year of service but given Lt Cols basic pay after completion of 17th year) was not refixed. I was given Lt Col pay scale after completion of 17 years of service. on 24 Dec 2004 Majs with in the service bracket of 13 to 20 years all of them became Lt Cols with Lt Col full pay. God only knows how the pay of 13 years maj and 20 years maj was fixed as they both became Lt Cols on same day. On 24 Dec 2004 my pay would have been refixed with Lt Cols pay of 13500/- plus seven increments as I completed 21 years (became selection grade Lt Col in 15th year but no pay was given for 2 years). Now 7th CPC has used the words "increments drawn in the last rank held" be added to the pay matrix. My point is it should be increments earned but not drawn.

25 years Lt Col with 12 increments the basic pension plys MSP (3000) goes to 34 450 (this should be the orop table) if this comes, 7th cpc pension scale would be fixed by multiplying this last pension drawn Rs 34450 x 2.57 = 88,537/- per month. This is what my point. Hope I put it very clearly now in this comment.
ReplyDelete
Replies
corona825 November 2015 at 18:27
Point noted, Sir.

I think I might have been misled by something I'd read on the web.

It should have been 13 and not 11.

My comment should have read as follows:

A Lt Col who got, say, 7 increments before he retired with a service of 26 years in 2002, would only reach a point in level 12A of the matrix corresponding to 13+7=20 years of service by using the matrix. What about the "equal service" component of OROP? ~~

The only way the Lt Col could get the full benefit of "same service" condition of OROP would be if he availed the number of increments (13) required to reach his total years of service (13+13=26) and not the 7 he had earned when the pay band did not start at 13 years of service. The notional pay point for a Lt Col with 26 years of service would be with 13 increments after 01 Jan 2016...
ReplyDelete
Replies
Unknown25 November 2015 at 20:53
Sir
I retired as a LT Cdr (SD) in Sep 1994 with seniority of 8 years in the rank and with full service of 32 years.I am confused by the tables and would be grateful if some one can enlighten me.
ReplyDelete
Replies
corona825 November 2015 at 23:51
@Col MS Raju :..Penmil has raised similar point on your previous comment of 11 years for Lt Col.."

Those points are not at all similar to what you had stated. That point was about years of service required for promotion and has been welcomed and used for correcting my blog post. Kindly read my preceding comment.

But in the case of your comments, on one hand you mention the distinction between increments actually earned and increments that would be admissible considering the years of service, the very same point I've raised repeatedly over the past week, yet on the other hand you suggest OROP and 7 CPC should not be mixed up.

Please think. CPC has mixed up the two. People making comments on blogs haven't. Nor can they unmix what CPC has mixed.
ReplyDelete
Replies
Rajendra26 November 2015 at 10:01
Dear Sir,
A Lt Col promoted to Col on time scale Post AVS in Dec 2004 and retired in Dec 2005 having earned only one increment will be placed at 125700/2 in the matrix. His batchmates in Lt Col rank retiring prior to Dec 2004 (Pre AVS) will be placed much higher in the Lt Col matrix having earned more increments. Hope OROP Tables clarify this. Regards....Rajendra
ReplyDelete
Replies
corona826 November 2015 at 10:51
Yes, its a bit of a mystery.

But an Officer promoted on time bound basis to rank of Col would have completed 26 years of service. He should be eligible for 13+13 increments in level 12A of matrix, or at least as many as he had actually earned. On promotion (on time bound basis) he would have been given at least that many increments in level 13 so that his pay fixation was not less than what it was in level 12A.

I suppose those increments in level 13 would also have to be considered. His increments may therefore be more than just 1.
ReplyDelete
Replies
corona827 November 2015 at 07:26
@Col MS Raju: From what I'd understood, one 7 CPC pension calculation for a pre Jan 2006 Lt Col with 25 years of service would be 25470x2.57=65457.90. For a Lt Col retiree of the period 01 Jan 2006 to 31 Dec 2015, it would be ( actual pension fixed)x2.57. I don't think MSP enters that equation.

As per the matrix, if a Lt Col retiree of pre Jan 2016 category, promoted at 17 years of service with 25 years of service at retirement had earned 8 (25-17=8) increments, his pension would be (143500+15500)/2 =79500.

However, considering that to attain 25 years of service, an officer would require12, ie.12=25-13, increments and not the 8 actually earned in the pre AVS-I era, then his pension as per the matrix would need to be , ought to be, (161500+15500)/2= 88500.

However, I'd be grateful for any corrections regarding these speculations.
ReplyDelete
Replies
Col MS Raju27 November 2015 at 10:40
@corona8

I agree that 7th cpc pay matrix include OROP and it is mixed up both, but it cant be implemented wef 01 Jul 2014, it being 7th cpc recommendations they will only be implented wef 01 Jan 2016. If we see the 7th cpc pay matrix table 12A, coln we can find 18 increments suggested/recommended to Lt Col (8000 GP) it means an officer in Lt col rank who earlier served for 31 years and above would get the highest pay shown in the last row in 12A column plus MSP 15,500 and half of this sum will be pension which works out to Rs 1,04,150/- pm. But all this will be clear once the instructions to PDAs along with OROP tables are issued by DESW/PCDA(P). Let us wait eagerly.
ReplyDelete
Replies
Col MS Raju27 November 2015 at 13:47
@corona8

Now you are absolutely correct in para 3 of your comment above.

Similarly work out pension of those Lt Cols who earlier served for above 31 years who never got time scale Col rank prior to vith cpc. What amount of pension such lt cols get in 7th cpc era? The pay matricks of 7th cpc recommends 18 yearly increments for Lt Cols (GP 8000) in coln 12A. It means the officer who served for 31 years and retired as Lt Col (time scale from 21st year onwards) will now be entitled for 18 increments (13 yrs + 18 years = 31 years). Some one above asked here (@satya sajja) that he served for 32 years and retired as Lt col in Sep 1994. He must get all 18 increments not only in 7th cpc but in orop scale even, or else he should be given col rank at 26th year of service and continue drawing annual increments till 32 years service. The difference between Lt Col and Col is just grade pay of Rs 700/- pm in 6th cpc era. He must get all 18 increments at least as shown in the pay matrix for 7th cpc.
ReplyDelete
Replies
corona827 November 2015 at 13:55
@Col MS Raju:"..will only be implented wef 01 Jan 2016.."

That is obvious. We're discussing pensions only wef 01 Jan 2016. But the point is 7CPC seems to have incorporated a "increments actually earned" model in a post 01 Jan 2016 version of OROP. It is that we need to look at, esp the concern expressed by you as well that whether there is a requirement to consider the increments nowadays required in a particular level to reach the total years of service of pre Jan 2016 retirees (esp those from the pre 16 Dec 2004 era in the case of Officer retirees).

As to what sort of OROP table/matrix will apply from Jul 14 to Dec 2015 is anybody's guess.
ReplyDelete
Replies
batsy29 November 2015 at 09:36
A level playing is what we should be looking for rather than getting into precise pension calculations.Pre 06 the scales(offrs) were such that one could get 3/4/5 increments (assumption) within the scale and two stag increments. Compare this with post 06 where a Lt col could have 12(if he took PMR after 25yrs;a Col could get even more if he retd as a Col(SG); a brig is getting 8/9 ; a maj Gen getting 4/5. The matrix works on 'increments' model. Rk weightage pre 1.9.08 for 33 yrs qualifying service vs 20 yrs qualifying service in 6cpc regime also needs to b taken into acct. This proposal of yrs in last rk was proposed for finalising orop but was rejected by the services and ufesm. Unfortunately justice Mathur has relied on inputs and not on a bit of analysis and research.
ReplyDelete
Replies
Unknown29 November 2015 at 10:04
@batsy, Sir your summation would have been precise i.e. there were 6/10/9/5/3/8 increments for Capt/Maj/Lt Col/Col/Brig and Maj Gen from 1996 till 15 Dec 2004 when the juggernaut hit the AVSC and then the bunching up too place which took between 7 and 8 years to clear. Therefore, the increments were reduced/staggered.

From my understanding, the pay matrix so recommended is for transition from 6 CPC to 7 CPC. So all those who retired after 1.1.2006 - exercising the option of one increment for re-fixation being in the rank at the time of retirement(i.e Rs 38530 for Lt Cols) or opted to start from the minimum of the pay in the pay band of that rank (Rs 37400) - will find appropriate places in the index from where to start.

There is a lot of analysis and research but then one must read the Report instead of "batting" the breeze.
ReplyDelete
Replies
Col MS Raju29 November 2015 at 10:20
Let us take example of a Major who got time bound rank in 2006 and if he retires at the service of 23 years in year 2015, he earns and actually draws 10 increments (10th increment is drawn before retirement on completion of 23 years service). Under orop all officers who retires at 23 years service shall have to be deemed to have served for 10 years in Lt Col rank which came into force on 24 Dec 2004, and all Lt Cols retired with 23 years service must get the pension with 10 increments at par with the officer with similar length of service is retiring in year 2015. The OROPO definition says it is length of service and the rank not the service in last rank and increments earned in last rank. As per this definition all old retiree Lt cols would automatically get the benefit of AVS commission implemented on 24 Dec 2004. All Lt Cols irrespective of their date of retirement to count the Lt Col service with effect from their 14 year of service irrespective of whether they got the rank in 14th year or at later stage. Lt Cols who served beyond 25 years total service before retirement they are entitled for Col rank immediately after completing 26th year of service and they should insist for Col rank and increments for service till 32 years, if they got full pension for 33 years. OROP definces same rank and same length of service. With the AVS commission and 6th cpc every officer above 13 years is a Lt Col and above 26 years is a Col and they should equate to Lt Cols and Cols and thus entitled for pension what Lt Cols and Cols are getting after retirement by 2015. After 2015 OROP switches over to equate pension with those retiring in 7cpc era.
ReplyDelete
Replies
Unknown29 November 2015 at 10:39
It is understood that the UFESM is contemplating going to the HSC.They should wait till the OROP Tables are out, else the matter will become subjudice and all of us will be left holding the can.
Ramani
ReplyDelete
Replies
Unknown29 November 2015 at 11:30
Dear Sir Ref Matrix above, Lt Col. Minimum pension today is (Excl DA) is 26265/-, therefore corresponding minimum pay is (X2) 52530/-.
Minus MSP 6000/- is 46530/-. I.e. Min Basic of Lt Col plus Grade pay is 46530/- and not 45700/- as shown in the matrix.

Consequently multiplying by 2.57 X 46530 = 119830/- and NOT 116700/- as shown.
may be for others as well
ReplyDelete
Replies
Col MS Raju29 November 2015 at 18:52
@paramjit singh

Min basic pay in pay band of Lt Col (without any increments) is 37400 basic + 8000 GP = 45400 and this basic pay is correctly shown in the pay matrix. All Lt Cols retired prior to 01 Jan 2006 were initially given pension of Rs 37400+8000+6000 MSP = 51400/2 = 25700 wef 01 Jan 2006 irrespective of increments earned/drawn by the officers. With the HSC judgement one increment of Rs 1130/- (that too 3 % on 37400 and not on GP, this is again an anomaly, Half of the increment of 1130 which works out to Rs 565/- was then added and arrears were initially paid from 24 Sep 2012 and onwards as per the MOD letter of 17 Jan 2013, again with the HSC intervention the govt has now paid arrears of Rs 565/- pm from 01 Jan 2006 to 23 Sep 2012) Thus the pension initially fixed at Rs 25700/- for Lt Cols with effect from 01 Jan 2006 has gone up to Rs 26265 (with the addition of just one increment that too on min of pay band of Rs 37400 and not on 45400/-). Granting of one increment that too only on pay band irrespective of increments earned/drawn by each officer is also an anomaly. Now as per 7th CPC recommendations the officers retired prior to 01 Jan 2016 will get all increments drawn added to their pay for re-fixing the pension with effect from 01 Jan 2016. Now the question is whether it is increments drawn or increments earned. Officers who got Lt Col rank prior to 24 Dec 2004 (AVSC) did not draw increments in Lt Col rank from 14th year of service, but after AVSC they are entitled for increments from 14th year onwards for fixation of future pay/pension in every cpc, then only OROP can be ensured between earlier retired officer and officer now being retired.
ReplyDelete
Replies
Anonymous3 December 2015 at 05:29
@ Col MS Raju
Sir,
“Agreed but how all the Lt Cols who retired in Vth CPC with the last basic (incl rank pay) of Rs 1`5100 and above up to Rs 18700 were given same pension with effect from 01 Jan 2006 it Rs 26265.”
That was what they called “Modified Parity”, a principle established at the commencement of V CPC, on 01/01/1996.
The 6 CPC just retained that principle. But while issuing operative instructions, it was wrongly interpreted and hence there was litigation starting with OA 655 etc. You are aware of it so I will not repeat.
What you are stating is “full Parity”, which perhaps for the first time in history, 7CPC has recommended. It is explained how it will work for those retired during 6CPC
But I am unclear as to how it will work out for retirees prior to 6CPC.In addition, there is the post and Pre AVS complication of the residency period for Lt Col and Col.
My hunch is that it will be very complicated.
But I could not understand why you called it (the 7CPC Recommendation for pensions), OROP. What 7 CPC recommended is just a ‘full parity”.
Simply stated, with the 7 CPC recommendations, a past pensioner, who had spent a long time in a given last rank would be benefited.
With OROP, a past pensioner, who had spent a long time in service, but a short time in the last rank will be benefited.
In my opinion that is the conflict that will arise.
ReplyDelete
Replies
Unknown5 December 2015 at 09:43
I think the OROP will beat the 7th CPC hands down.It recalls to mind the comment of the RM that veterans will not be covered by the 7thCPC.However it is the formulae of multiplication factor of 2.57 that is important.Let us hope that the interaction with Gen V.K .Singh will produce the required results.
Ramani
ReplyDelete
Replies
Unknown5 December 2015 at 16:24
@ Taaza Khabar,
Just wait till 20th dec when the tables will be out(hopefully). Also I understand that future PMRs
will also be covered by OROP. This I read in one of the blogs.hopefully this is true.
so far everything is in the field of conjecture
.ramani
ReplyDelete
Replies
Col MS Raju30 June 2016 at 16:33
Dear Sir,

As per TOI news, the pay matrix levels for Lt Col, Col and Brig are increased. The chart given above is the same old one. Let us wait for the new pay matrix chart with increased levels.

The present basic pension of Lt Col & equivalents is Rs 34765/-, add 23%, it comes to 42761/- then multiply it by 2.25 (DA as on 01 Jan 2016), the gross basic pension will then be Rs 96,213/- per month. Another latest news is that the PMO has said higher increase of existing basic is being given at 30% (instead of 23 or 23.55% shown above). Let us wait till full figures are published by the MOD.

ReplyDelete
Replies
Aerial View1 July 2016 at 12:00
Dear Colonel,

This post is dated 21 Nov 2015.

The Cabinet approved the increase of rationalisation for Brig from 2.57 to 2.67 and added more stages (indices) for Lt Col and Col on 29 June 16 - about 6 months later.

So you may wish to withdraw your comment as you have mixed up the time lines.

ReplyDelete
Replies

Add comment