OROP 2015 - Part II Minutes of Joint Working Group,

Minutes of meeting of the Working Group for implementation of

One Rank One Pension

            In order to discuss the modalities of implementation of One Rank One Pension (OROP), the first meeting of Working Group constituted as per MoD’s decision dated 24^th April 2014 was held on 2^nd May 2014 in the conference hall of CGDA’s office. The meeting was chaired by CGDA and list of participants are attached as Annx -1.

2.         Opening the discussion, CGDA welcomed the members and intimated the mandate given to the working group as per MoD ID dated 24^th April 2014. CGDA also stated that for implementation of OROP, the solution be practicable and implementable within the reasonable time frame. 

3.         Pr CDA (P) Allahabad made a presentation amplifying the definition of OROP and key terms used in the same. Pr Cdr (P) presented two options for consideration of the working group for implementation of OROP. Copy of presentation made by Pr CDA (P) is attached herewith. After presenting the options, it was stated that working group may make a consensus on basic parameters viz. cut-off date, definition of current & past pensioners, future enhancements etc to finalise the proposal in real terms. Pr CDA (P) further opined that option I which provides revision of pension based on arithmetic mean on rates of pension of post-2006 pensioners having equal qualifying service, is a practicable one and could be expeditiously implemented by Pension Disbursing agencies in a reasonable time frame. 

4.         Reps of Services made following points for consideration of the working group:

(a)        Enhancement taken place during service of a personnel has been averaged down in Option – I.

(b)        Cut off date shall be taken as 1.4.2014 and pensioners retired prior to this date shall be treated as past pensioners.

(c)        As future enhacements have to be automatically passed on to the pensioners, Services proposal for incremental increase in pension on 1^st July every year shall be considered was corrected by hand of Chairman PARC as “proposal for annual revision of OROP tables should be considered.”

(d)        Option projected by the Pr CDA (P) will just bridge the gap and will not establish OROP.

            (e)        Benefits shall also be considered for JCO/OR.

5.         After detailed discussion, following points were deliberated up on:

(i)         As mandate given to the working group is to establish parity in pension, establishing pay parity is beyond its purview.

(ii)        In his Interim budget speech for the year 2014-15 (attached as Annexure -2), Hon’ble FM announced that Govt has accepted the principle of OROP for Defence Forces and thus decide to close the gap in the pension between Pre-2006 retirees and Post-2006 retirees. He also specifically mentioned that as a result of changes in pension rules applicable to the Defence Forces notified on three occasions in 2006, 2010 and 2013, the gap between Pre-2006 retirees and Post-2006 retirees has been closed in ranks of Havildar, Nb Subedar and Subedar Major. The gap that exists in the ranks of Sepoy, Naik, and in the ranks of Major & above is now proposed to be bridges by walking “the last mile and close the gap for all retirees in all ranks.” Based on this an inference is drawn that Pre-s006 retiree shall be considered as Past Pensioners. Accordingly, those who have travelled in the regime of 6^th CPC and retired thereafter shall be treated as Current retirees.  

            (iii)       Date of implementation of new recommendations shall be from 1.4.2014.

(iv)       Annual incremental increase in pension as proposed by the Services would lead to change in existing pension structure which is not in the domain of working group and also not practical one. Hence, future enhancements in pension shall be considered based on recommendations of Seventh Pay Commission recommendations.

6.         CGDA stressed on the need to understand the key terms used in the definition of OROP provided by MoD through their minutes of meeting held on 26.2.2014, with greater clarity so as to arrive (at) the best possible solution. Reps of Services concluded that for better appreciation of the two options presented by Pr CDA (P) during the meeting, they need a thorough examination and they will revert on the same. However, it was suggested to have a formal discussion between reps of Services and reps of CGDA/Pr CDA (P) to discuss some points of doubts. Keeping in view the time line given to the working group, CGDA advised to have the discussion the same day and view of the Services shall be given to the CGDA office positively by 5^th May 2014 to examine the same. 

7.         Meeting ended with a vote of thanks to the chair.

Appendix –I

Points of discussion held between Reps of Services and reps of CGDA, PCDA (P) on 2^nd May 2014

The discussion was chaired by PCDA (P) Allahabad

1.         Reps of Services intimated that they have gone through Option-I and raised following points for consideration/clarification:

(i)         Anomaly in rated for pension for higher qualifying service vis-à-vis lower qualifying service in same rank shall be considered for removal.

(ii)        Anomaly in rates of pension for higher rank vis-à-vis lower rank in same qualifying service shall also be considered for removal.

(iii)       Methodology may be drawn for arriving at revised pension where there is no retiree available for any length of qualifying service.

(iv)       Tables for rates of pension shall be prepared for less than 20/15 years of qualifying service.

            (v)        Same tables shall be prepared for Col (TS) & Col (S).

(vi)       Qualifying service shall be rounded off to one year due to change of increment policy in July each year for serving personnel. It will not make any change in the financial effect.      

2.         After detailed discussion, issues at (i) and (ii) above were agreed to in principle subject to finding out a suitable method for achieving this. PCDA (P) suggested that further examination will be required to arrive at any decision for issues as at (iii), (iv)  & (v) above. There was no consensus for the issue as at (vi) above. 

3.         Reps pf Services stated that they had not examined Option-II presented to the working group and their detailed comment will be provided to CGDA office as early as possible.

Annx-1

List of participants attended first meeting of the Working Group held on

2.5.2014 for implementation of One Rank One Pension

Reps of CGDA/PCDA (P)

1.         Km Vandana Srivastava IDAS                          CGDA                           In chair

2.         Sh A N Saxena IDAS                                         Addl CGDA

3.         Dr G D Pungle IDAS                                         Or CDA (P) Allahabad

4.         Sh Ajay Mishra IDAS                                        Jt CGDA

5.         Sh C K Bhatjiwale                                            ACGDA (Pen)

6.         Ms B Lakshmi Krishna                                     Sr Accts Offr (Pen)

7.         Sh Awadesh Srivastava                                   AAO (Pen)

8.         Sh Rajesh Kumar Gupta                                  AAO (Pen)

9.         Sh M A Farooqui                                              AAO- Pr CDA (P) Allahabad

10.       Sh  Ajay Kumar                                                AAO – Pr CDA (P) Allahabad  

Reps of Ministry

11.       Sh B K Mukhopadhyay                         JS & Addl FA (M)

12.       Sh Navin Choudhary                                        JS (E)

13.       Sh Pradeep Kumar                                           Director (AG-I)

14.       Sh Chanan Ram Saini                                      DS (Pen)

15.       Sh Virendra Kumar                                          DFA (Pen)

Reps of Services

16.       Maj Gen K K Agarwal                                      Chairman PCC (Army)

17.       AVM S M Subhani                                            Chairman PCC (Air Force)

18.       R Adm Pradeep Joshi                                      Chairman PCC (Navy)

19.       Col R K Prusty                                                  Director PCC (Army)

20.       Gp Capt S Dagar                                              Member PCC (Air Force)

21.       Gp Capt D S Dagar                                          Member PCC (Air Force) (?)

Signatures of the Working Group

Presentation of the CGDA on OROP on 2^nd May 2014

Slide 2                         Outline

• One Rank One Pension (OROP)
• Key terms used in OROP definition
• Current Pension structure
• Proposal of the Services
• Options Available
• Conclusion

Slide 3                                     One Rank One Pension (OROP)

            Scope defined in the meeting held on 26.2.2014 chaired by Hon’ble RM (MoD ID dated 26.2.2014)

            “One Rank One Pension (OROP) implies that uniform pension be paid to the Armed Forces personnel retiring in the same rank with the same length of service irrespective of the date of their retirement and any future enhancement in the rates of pension to be automatically passed on to the past pensioners.

            This implies bridging the gap between the rates of pension of the current pensioners and the past pensioners and also future enhancements in the rate of pension to be automatically passed on to the past pensioners.”

Slide 4             Key terms used in OROP definition

• Uniform Pension

• Uniform pension means pension under a uniform pay/pension structure i.e. under the  pay scales with the same qualifying service and same pension calculation formula
• Does not mean same (equal) pension to all retirees (past & current)

·                                                       Rank

·                                                        Officers – Rank held at the time of retirement

·                                                        JCOs/ORs – Rank with their trades/group last held at the time of retirement

Slide 5             Key terms (contd)

• Length of Service
• Total service qualifying for pension
• Qualitative comparison of length of service in terms of number of years rendered in each rank before retirement

·                                                        Past & Current Pensioners

·                                                        Pensioners retired during currency of pay commission are on the same structure

·                                                        The date of implementation of Sixth CPC should be reckoned as a cut off date for the past & current pensioners

Slide 6             Key terms (contd)

• Future Enhancements

• Pay structure with annual increments relevant for serving personnel
• Method of bringing parity between the past & current retirees should be linked with the pension structure and not the pay structure

Slide 7             Key terms (contd)

• Bridging the gap in Pension
• Ministry has defined to bridge the gap in pension between the rates of pension
• While bridging the gap in pension between pre and post 2006 category for the maximum number of personnel, some variation may persist 

Slide 8             Proposal of the Services: An Analysis

• The various features of the proposal have been examined and grouped into three categories as follows

• Agreeable features/points
• Will disturb Pension structure and needs to be referred to the Pay Commission
• Beyond the purview of the Working Group

Slide 9             Proposal of the Services (contd)

• Points of agreement

• Initial upgradation of pension will be made from 1^st April 2014 [Para 9 (a)]

• Linkage of full pension with 33 years of QS shall be removed [Para 9 (b)]

• For Sepoy, Naik & Havildar, the ceiling of 32 years of QS shall be removed [Para 9 (c)]

Slide 10           Proposal of the Services (contd)

• Issues which will disturb Pension Structure and need to be referred to Pay Commission

• Qualifying service be rounded off to the nearest completed year [Para 5]

• Notional pension based on the highest pay, as on 1^st July actually drawn (inclusive of annual increment) by each rank with reference to the length of QS shall be allowed to past pensioners [Para 7]

• Definition of OROP does not differentiate between different pay groups/services, highest pay drawn by each rank irrespective of pay groups, shall be taken into account across the three services [Para 8] 

Slide 11           Proposal of the Services (contd)

• Issues which will disturb Pension Structure and need to be referred to Pay Commission

• After initial upgradation, pension will be revised on 1^st July every year starting from 1^st July 2014 [Para 9 (a)]

• If revised pension for a rank at any length of service is less than the pension for the same rank for lower length of service, pension of higher length of service shall be stepped up to the level of lower length of service for that rank [Para 9 (f)]

• If live data is not available for any rank/length of service, pension for the next higher rank for same length of service to be taken reducing the pension by half the amount of difference in Grade pays of the two ranks [Para 9 (k)]

Slide 12           Proposal of the Services (contd) 

• Beyond the scope of OROP

• Honorary Nb Sub, MACP Nb Sub & equivalents will be granted the pension of Nb Sub [Para 9 (j)]

• Change/improvements in Hony Lt/Capt shall be applicable to regular commissioned officers in the ranks of Lieutenant & Captain, if it is beneficial [Para 9 (j)]

• Condition for counting of reduced service in the ranks for pre-1986 retiree officers shall be removed in order to pay all retirees with the same criteria [Para 9 (m)]

Slide 13           Proposal of the Services (contd)

• Beyond the scope of OROP

• Pension of current pensioners for all time bound ranks (up to Colonel) to be extended to past pensioners with same length of commissioned service, if the past pensioners had retired before 16^th December 2004

• For this purpose, years of service will be relevant and tables for higher rank shall be taken into consideration to determine pension [Para 9 (n)]

• Any changes in the policy regarding pay or promotion which affect the pay/pension of future pensioners shall also be passed on to the past pensioners from the same date [Para 10].  

Slide 14           Option Proposed

• For implementation of OROP based on the existing norms viz. Rank, Pay drawn, Qualifying service etc, following two options are proposed

• Option I           On the basis of average/mean amount of pension for all current retirees

• Option II          On allowing notional increments on minimum of fitment tables for the rank last held

Slide 15                       Option I

• Pension differs for the same rank and the same qualifying service due to different pay drawn by each individual

• To neutralise the difference, an average (arithmetic mean) of pension of all current pensioners (post 2006) could be determined and applied to past pensioners

• Protection for post-2006 pension drawing less than the mean shall be required

• Those drawing pension above the mean continue to get the higher amount of pension

Slide 16                       Option II

• Service rendered in the rank held last shall be considered

• Minimum of fitment tables for the rank last held to be taken as a benchmark on 1.1.2006

• The increments earned during the service in the last rank held shall be notionally allowed @ 3% over the minimum of fitment tables

• 50% of the amount so fixed could be considered as pension

Slide 17           Comparative Statements

Rank	Pension pre-2006	Pen range post-2006	Option I	Option II
Major (QS 22 years)	16550	19285-22745	21484	22855 (10 increments)
Colonel (QS 26 years)	27795	26745-34570	31376	32620 (10 increments)
Brigadier (QS 33 years	29145	30475-37985	34822	33320 (5 increments)
Maj Gen (QS 33 years)	30350	35410-38500	37131	36665 (7 increments)

Slide 18           Comparative Statements

Rank	Pension pre-2006	Pen range post-2006	Option I	Option II
Hav Y QS 24 years	7375	7005-11000	7443	7495 (10 increments)
Subedar Y QS 28 years	11970	10455-14370	11971	12375 (10 increments

Slide 19                       Implementation Approach

• Option I
• Implementation is easy and can be implemented through Table based circulars
• Pension across the three services for a particular Qualifying service will be taken into account & mean calculated
• After issue of Government letter and circular thereon, payment is to be made by PDAs
• It can be implemented in short time

Slide 20                       Implementation Approach

• Option II
• Notional Pay after allowing the increments in last rank will be required from Pay Accounting Authorities
• Current PDA details would be required
• Corrigendum PPO have to be issued by PSAs based on LPC-cum-Data Sheet
• It is time taking process as more than 18 lakh cases will be involved

Record of discussion of second meeting of the Working Group for

Implementation of One Rank One Pension

            The second meeting of Working Group constituted as per MoD’s decision dated 24^th April 2014 was held on 8^th May 2014 in the conference hall of CGDA’s office. The meeting was chaired by Addl CGDA and list of participants is attached as Annx-I to this minutes.

2.         Opening the discussion, Addl CGDA welcome the members of the Working Group and desired the feedback from the Services on the proposals of Pr CDA (P) presented during the first meeting of Working Group held on 2^nd May 2014.

3.         Reps of Services put forth following points for clarification by members of the working group:

            (a)        From where the Terms of Reference of the Working Group have been taken.

(b)        The aim is to grant OROP or is one time increase to bridge the gap.

4.         Reps of Services further submitted that Terms of Reference should be taken from the suggestion/recommendations made in the Report of Rajya Sabha Committee on Petitions dated 19.12.2011 and subsequently reiterated in the definition approved by Hon’ble RM and circulated by Ministry vide their ID dated 26.2.2014. Speech of Hon’ble FM is a reference point and not Act of Parliament and hence, it should be viewed in that light.

5.         Pr CDA (P) stated that the Terms of Reference for the Working Group has been clearly spelt out by Ministry of Defence in his order dated 24.2.2014 and there is no need for its further elucidation. Pr CDA (P) also intimated that the key terms have been taken in his last presentation held on 2^nd May 2014 from the definition of OROP circulated by MoD vide their ID dated 26.2.2014 read with Interim Budget Speech 2014-15 of Hon’ble Finance Minister. The later one is considered to elaborate the key terms which are silent in the definition circulated by MoD ID dated 26.2.2014. 

6.         After discussion, it was considered that the points of disagreements may be recorded and referred to the Ministry. The points of disagreements, recorded during the meeting is enclosed as Annx-2 to these minutes of meeting.  

7.         Meeting ended with a vote of thanks to the chair.

List of participants attended first meeting of the Working Group held on

8.5.2014 for implementation of One Rank One Pension

Reps of CGDA/PCDA (P)

1.         Sh A N Saxena IDAS                                         Addl CGDA                              in chair

2.         Dr G D Pungle IDAS                                         Or CDA (P) Allahabad

3.         Sh Ajay Mishra IDAS                                        Jt CGDA

4.         Sh C K Bhatjiwale                                            ACGDA (Pen)

5.         Ms B Lakshmi Krishna                                     Sr Accts Offr (Pen)

6.         Sh Awadesh Srivastava                                   AAO (Pen)

7.         Sh Rajesh Kumar Gupta                                  AAO (Pen)

8.         Sh M A Farooqui                                              AAO- Pr CDA (P) Allahabad

9.         Sh  Ajay Kumar                                                AAO – Pr CDA (P) Allahabad  

Reps of Ministry

10.       Sh B K Mukhopadhyay                         JS & Addl FA (M)

11.       Sh Navin Choudhary                                        JS (E)

12.       Sh Pradeep Kumar                                           Director (AG-I)

13.       Sh Chanan Ram Saini                                      DS (Pen)

14.       Sh Virendra Kumar                                          DFA (Pen)

Reps of Services

15.       Maj Gen K K Agarwal                                      Chairman PCC (Army)

16.       AVM S M Subhani                                            Chairman PCC (Air Force)

17.       R Adm Pradeep Joshi                                      Chairman PCC (Navy)

18.       Capt A T Anandan                                           Dy Chairman PCC (Navy)

19.       Col R K Prusty                                                  Director PCC (Army)

20.       Col Jasdeep Singh                                           Director PCC (Army)

21.       Gp Capt S Dagar                                              Member PCC (Air Force)

22.       Gp Capt D S Dagar                                          Member PCC (Air Force) 

23.       Cdr V S Chauhan                                             Director TRIPAS (Army)

24.       Cdr Vishal Agarwal                                         Jt Dir PCC (Navy)

25.       Wg Cdr K N Bhatt                                            Member PCC (Air Force)

26.       Lt Cdr A Sudhir                                                Member PCC (Navy)

Signatures of the Working Group

Annx

Minutes of the meeting of Working Group on OROP held on 8.5.2014 in the office of CGDA

Points of Differences

1.         Definition of OROP

            Definition of OROP should be drawn from the Hon’ble FM Interim Budget 2014-15 speech vide the gap between pre-2006 retirees and post-2006 retires for all ranks needs to be closed.

            As per Services, the definition of OROP is given by the Rajya Sabha Committee on Petitions presented on 19.11.2011 and reiterated by the Hon’ble RM in his directions given in meeting held on 26.2.2014, which states that “One Rank One Pension implies that uniform pension be paid to the Armed Forces personnel retiring in the same rank with same length of service, irrespective of their date of retirement and any future enhancements in the rates of pension to be automatically passed on to the past pensioners.” Services also feel that essence of the Hon’ble FM speech in parliament is also the same. However, the details emerge only from the OROP definition given above which has not cut-off date like 1.1.2006 as brought out in Para 3 of draft Government letter submitted by the Services. In other words, in the opinion of Services there is no cut off date like 1.1.2006.    

2.         Interpretation of the term “Uniform Pension” in the OROP definition

            Uniform pension means pension under a uniform pay/pension structure i.e. under same pay scales with same qualifying service & pension calculation formula. It need not necessarily lead to same pension for all the retiree (past & current) in the same rank and same qualifying service because of the annual increments given to the serving personnel. 

            As per Services, uniform pension means one (as in the term ‘OROP’) same/equal/identical pension amount for Armed Forces personnel retiring in the same rank and same length of service i.e. Qualifying Service (as defined in Pension Regulations for the Army 2008) as per para 3 of the report of Rajya Sabha Committee on Petitions presented on 19.12.2011. There is no intention of introducing annual increments for pensioners. 

3.         Interpretation of the term “Length of Service” in the OROP definition

            The term “Length of Service” in the OROP definition (i.e. same pension for same rank and length of service) is to be treated as the number of years of service put in by the pensioner in the rank last held. Alternatively, if total qualifying service is to be treated for the purpose of OROP then qualitative aspects relating to length of service in terms of number of years rendered in each rank in service person has served before the retirement in the rank last held, need be taken cognisance of. While this will be difficult to implement in practice, appropriate mechanism which is workable and implementable, can be worked out to implement the spirit of OROP so as to bridge the gap in pension of pre & post 2006 pensioners.   

            Whereas Services feel that length of service and qualifying service are synonymous and any other interpretation gives rise to certain anomalies viz. reduction or no benefits in pension on promotion (one illustration given). Services interpretation is based on Rule 19 of Pension Regulations 2008 as also the precedence of MoD letter No. 1 (11)/2012-D (Pen/Policy) dated 17.1.2013 wherein qualifying service and length of service are synonymous for determining pension. The alternative interpretation of “Length of service” being the service only in the rank last held is not only violative of existing regulations but also near impossible to implement with existing format of PPOs which only indicate the qualifying service. 

4.         Bridging the gap in the pension amount between current & past pensioner vis-à-vis extending the benefit of changes of improves service conditions of serving personnel to past pensioners.

            It is considered that a method has to be worked out with a view to bridge the gap in pension amount between pre & post-2006 pensioners without extending the benefits of improved service conditions (viz. method of faster promotion applicable to the current personnel) to past pensioners.

            Services view is that OROP is not only bridging the gap but removing the gap with a view of granting same/equal pension to all retirees but with same rank and same qualifying service with future enhancement to be passed to the past pensioners automatically as enunciated in the definition of OROP. It is also brought out that benefit of MSP and Grade Pay for calculation of pension has already been extended to past pensioners vide MoD letter No. 1 (11)/2012-D (Pen/Policy) dated 17.1.2013. Similarly, other future benefits, if any, should be passed on to the past pensioners.  

5.         Modalities for automatically passing of the benefit of future enhancements  in the rate of pension

            As and when there is enhancement/change in the basic rate of pension (either based on pay commission recommendation or Government policy) this benefit is to be passed onto the past pensioners.

            The Services endorse the above with the qualification that there will be a need for periodic review of OROP tables say on a yearly basis wherein a few anomalies may have emerged (junior drawing more pension than senior) which will require to be addressed. 

Signatures of the Working Group

Record of the discussion of third meeting of the Working Group for

Implementation of One Rank One Pension

            In order to decide the modalities for implementation of OROP, the third meeting of Working Group constituted as per MoD’s decision dated 24^th April 2014, was held on 9^th May 2014 in the conference hall of CGDA’s office. The meeting was chaired by CGDA and the list of participants is attached as Annx-1 to this minutes.

2.         Opening the discussion, CGDA welcomes the members of the Working Group. Addl CGDA briefed on the development taken place in the last two meetings and sought views of reps of Services on the average method proposed by the PCDA (P) Allahabad. Reps of the Services stated that the period of span taken for calculating average is too big (1.1.2006 to 31.03.2014) and the Services felt that the period be restricted to one year i.e. July 13 to March 14. Reps of Services further reiterated that instead of taking average pension, maximum value of pension for each Qualifying Service should be taken for making the OROP tables.

3.         Rep of MoD made a point that Maximum of Fitment table as done in the case of JCOs/ORs can be taken. Reps of Services were not agreeable on the proposal and stated that rate of pension being drawn by a current pensioner (viz. post 1.7.2013 retiree) should be allowed to past pensioners in order to implement OROP in true sense. On the issue of referring Report of Rajya Sabha Committee of Petition for determining terms of reference, JS (E) pointed out that there are large number of Parliament Committees whose findings/recommendations may or may not be accepted by the Government. As such, Terms of Reference may be derived from the FM speech made in the Parliament or as per definition provided by RM.

4.         Services also put forth a separate Model of calculation of pension which was a modification to the Model II presented by the PCDA (P) Allahabad vide his presentation on 2.5.2014. Reps of Services also agreed that extreme deviations in a rank could be excluded to avoid undue/unintended benefits across the board.

5.         CGDA suggested that Services may provide a write up on their proposal with assumptions for examination. Addl CGDA also stated that Pr CDA (P)’s Option-I may also be examined by the Services by considering mean or mode value in last one year data starting from 1^st July 2013 to 31^st March 2014. It was agreed upon that all the methods suggested to the Working Group should be examined with reference to the live data of three Services.

6.         Meeting ended with a vote of thanks to the chair.

List of participants attended third meeting of the Working Group held on

9.5.2014 for implementation of One Rank One Pension

Reps of CGDA/PCDA (P)

1.         Km Vandana Srivastava IDAS                          CGDA                           In chair

2.         Sh A N Saxena IDAS                                         Addl CGDA

3.         Sh Ajay Mishra IDAS                                        Jt CGDA

4.         Sh C K Bhatjiwale                                            ACGDA (Pen)

5.         Ms B Lakshmi Krishna                                     Sr Accts Offr (Pen)

6.         Sh Awadesh Srivastava                                   AAO (Pen)

7.         Sh Rajesh Kumar Gupta                                  AAO (Pen)

8.         Sh M A Farooqui                                              AAO- Pr CDA (P) Allahabad

9.         Sh  Ajay Kumar                                                AAO – Pr CDA (P) Allahabad  

Reps of Ministry

10.       Sh B K Mukhopadhyay                         JS & Addl FA (M)

11.       Sh Navin Choudhary                                        JS (E)

12.       Sh Pradeep Kumar                                           Director (AG-I)

13.       Sh Chanan Ram Saini                                      DS (Pen)

14.       Sh Virendra Kumar                                          DFA (Pen)

Reps of Services

15.       Maj Gen K K Agarwal                                      Chairman PCC (Army)

16.       AVM S M Subhani                                            Chairman PCC (Air Force)

17.       R Adm Pradeep Joshi                                      Chairman PCC (Navy)

18.       Capt A T Anandan                                           O i/c PCC (Navy)

19.       Col R K Prusty                                                  Director PCC (Army)

20.       Gp Capt S Dagar                                              Member PCC (Air Force)

21.       Gp Capt D S Dagar                                          Member PCC (Air Force) (?)

Signatures of the Working Group

Record of the discussion of fourth meeting of the Working Group for

Implementation of One Rank One Pension

            The fourth meeting of Working Group constituted as per MoD’s decision dated 24^th April 2014, was held on 15^th May 2014 in the conference hall of CGDA’s office. The meeting was chaired by Addl CGDA and list of participants is attached as Annx-1 to this minutes.

2.         Opening the discussion, Addl CGDA welcomed the members and referred the discussion held on 9^th May 2014 in which the Services wanted to examine a revised proposal based on Mean, Mode and Maximum value (after excluding extreme values) by taking data of last one year retirees starting 1^st July 2013 to 31^st March 2014. Addl CGDA stated that the new methods suggested by Services on 12^th May 2014 have been gone through and it is found that both methods have some reservations as already pointed out on the Services’ initial proposal given to the working group by Ministry. The main issues highlighted were Annual revision of pension, allowing maximum pension of post 1.7.2013 retiree, extending benefits of current promotion/service conditions to the post retirees, current & past pensioners etc.  

3.         Reps of Services made following points for consideration of the working group:

(a)        Pension data for last one year as agreed to in last meeting was yet to be made available.

(b)        Instead of taking maximum value amongst mean, median and mode, max function should be taken.

(c)        The values of OROP tables based on maximum pension after removing extreme points shall approximately be same as proposed by Pr CDA (P) to determine pension on mean value. For this, different pension tables could be issued for different entry grades in JCO/OR as well as Officers.

(d)        On adopting any other method for implementation of OROP, pension structure anomalies will continue. If maximum pension is taken, it will be conforming to the definition of OROP ad would not generate grievances and litigations by Ex-Servicemen post implementation.

(e)        The data available for the Air Force (all ranks) pensioners retired between 1.7.2013 and 31.3.2014 was made available to the Working Group for working their proposal across the three Services.

(f)        As far as the issue of annual revision of pension is concerned, the Services emphasised that there is no intent to upgrade the pensions annually. Only on annual review of OROP tables is envisaged to take care of any anomalies which may have crept in. It was also clarified that once steady state is achieved, there will be no requirement for annual review of OROP tables.

(g)        As far as extending benefits of current promotions/service conditions to the past retirees is concerned, the Services proposal does not envisage notional promotion to past retirees for the purpose of OROP.

4.         Reps of Ministry also made following points for consideration of the working group:

(i)         Removal of 33 year conditionality for pre-2006 Defence pension is sub-judice and should not be considered by the Working Group.

(ii)        Post-2006 pensioners could not be equated with current retiree as benefit of OROP has to be considered only for pre-2006 pensioners.  

(iii)       As giving rates of pension maximum or otherwise has to be decided by the Ministry of Finance, financial implication for all possible proposals should also be worked out.

5.         After detailed discussion, it was decided that Pr CDA (P) may check the difference in rates of pension by working out revised pension in mean, median, mode and max function along with financial implication in each scenario. Pr CDA (P) may also provide data of last one year retirees of Army pensioners to reps of Services for their analysis.

6.                              Meeting ended with a vote of thanks to the chair.

Annx-1

List of participants attended fourth meeting of the Working Group held on

15.5.2014 for implementation of One Rank One Pension

Reps of CGDA/PCDA (P)

1.         Sh A N Saxena IDAS                                         Addl CGDA                              in chair

2.         Sh Ajay Mishra IDAS                                        Jt CGDA

3.         Sh C K Bhatjiwale                                            ACGDA (Pen)

4.         Ms B Lakshmi Krishna                                     Sr Accts Offr (Pen)

5.         Sh Awadesh Srivastava                                   AAO (Pen)

6.         Sh Rajesh Kumar Gupta                                  AAO (Pen)

Reps of Ministry

7.         Sh B K Mukhopadhyay                         JS & Addl FA (M)

8.         Sh Navin Choudhary                                        JS (E)

9.         Sh Pradeep Kumar                                           Director (AG-I)

10.       Sh Chanan Ram Saini                                      DS (Pen)

11.       Sh Virendra Kumar                                          DFA (Pen)

Reps of Services

12.       Maj Gen K K Agarwal                                      Chairman PCC (Army)

13.       AVM S M Subhani                                            Chairman PCC (Air Force)

14.       R Adm Pradeep Joshi                                      Chairman PCC (Navy)

15.       Capt A T Anandan                                           Dy Chairman PCC (Navy)

16.       Col R K Prusty                                                  Director PCC (Army)

17.       Gp Capt S Dagar                                              Member PCC (Air Force)

18.       Gp Capt D S Dagar                                          Member PCC (Air Force) 

19.       Wg Cdr K N Bhatt                                            Member PCC (Air Force)

20.       Lt Cdr A Sudhir                                                Member PCC (Navy)

Signatures of the Working Group

Record of the discussion of fifth meeting of the Working Group for

Implementation of One Rank One Pension

            In order to decide the modalities for implementation of OROP, the fifth meeting of Working Group constituted as per MoD’s decision dated 24^th April 2014, was held on 23^rd May 2014 in the conference hall of CGDA’s office. The meeting was chaired by CGDA and the list of participants is attached as Annx-1 to this minutes. 

2.         Opening the discussion, CGDA welcome the members of the Working Group. The minutes of the earlier meetings were circulated amongst the members of the Working Group. The contents of the minutes were discussed and finalised during the meeting. 

3.         Pr CDA (P) Allahabad intimated financial implications on the following proposals discussed during the previous meetings.

S No	Brief detail of proposal	Approx financial implications (in crores) per year
1	Maximum of the fitment tables for Officers (as followed in the case of JCO/OR)	Rs 240
2	On allowing notional increments on minimum of fitment tables for ranks last held	Rs 520
3	On basis of average/mean amount of pension for all post-2006 retirees	Rs 550
4	Proposal of Services based on maximum pension of current retirees	Rs 9100

4.         Reps of Services reiterated that the data base available with Pr CDA (P) for post-2006 pensioners and working sheets for above calculations may be shared with them for analysis. Pr CDA (P) mentioned that the details of calculation are available in the CGDA’s office and the reps of Services may take any information desired.

5.         Meeting ended with a vote of thanks to the chair.

List of participants attended fourth meeting of the Working Group held on

23.5.2014 for implementation of One Rank One Pension

Reps of CGDA/PCDA (P)

1.         Kum Vandana Srivastava IDAS                        CGDA                                       In chair           

2.         Sh G D Pungle IDAS                                         Pr CDA (P) Allahabad                         

3.         Sh Ajay Mishra IDAS                                        Jt CGDA

4.         Sh C K Bhatjiwale                                            ACGDA (Pen)

5.         Ms B Lakshmi Krishna                                     Sr Accts Offr (Pen)

6.         Sh Awadesh Srivastava                                   AAO (Pen)

7.         Sh Rajesh Kumar Gupta                                  AAO (Pen)

Reps of Ministry

8.         Ms A S Lakshmi                                               JS (ESW)         

9.         Sh B K Mukhopadhyay                         JS & Addl FA (M)

10.       Sh Navin Choudhary                                        JS (E)

11.       Sh Pradeep Kumar                                           Director (AG-I)

12.       Sh Chanan Ram Saini                                      DS (Pen)

13.       Sh Virendra Kumar                                          DFA (Pen)

14.       Sh Ganesh H Nikhare                                      SO (Fin/Pen)

Reps of Services

15.       Maj Gen K K Agarwal                                      Chairman PCC (Army)

16.       AVM S M Subhani                                            Chairman PCC (Air Force)

17.       R Adm Pradeep Joshi                                      Chairman PCC (Navy)

18.       Capt A T Anandan                                           Dy Chairman PCC (Navy)

19.       Col R K Prusty                                                  Director PCC (Army)

20.       Gp Capt D S Dagar                                          Member PCC (Air Force) 

21.       Cdr Vishal Agarwal                                         Member PCC (Navy)

22.       Lt Cdr A Sudhir                                                Member PCC (Navy)

Signatures of the Working Group

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