On what basis did DESW/MoD refer a TRIPAS letter on OROP to O/o CGDA?

Is the Deptt of Ex-Servicemen Welfare just a Post Office?

That OROP is more than Post 1.1.2016 pension was not substantiated by TRIPAS??

Online RTI Request Form Details

RTI Request Details:-

RTI Request Registration number DEXSW/R/2019/50957

Public Authority Department of Ex-Servicemen Welfare

Personal Details of RTI Applicant:-

Name Air Marshal S Y Savur PVSM AVSM retd

---------------

Request Details:-

Citizenship Indian

Is the Requester Below Poverty Line? No

(Description of Information sought (upto 500 characters)

Description of Information Sought

1. Please refer to reply No. 237/RTI/2014 - D (P/P)- Part II dated 15.7.2019 in response to DEXSW/R/2019/50600 dated 13.6.2019

2. Please provide the following information relevant to Para 3 of TRIPAS letter reference No. C/7206/VII CPC/84/OROP dated 11.3.2019 referred in the reply which e.g. basis of calculation of pension as per OROP differs from the basis of calculations for pension in 7th CPC and this may have resulted in lower fixation of pension for post 2016 retirees than the one who retired prior to 1.1.2016

(a) A photocopy of the enclosures/data provided by TRIPAS in letter dated 11.3.2019 to support its statement that those who retired post 1.7.2014 and prior to 1.1.2016 are drawing more pension than those who retired after 1.1.2016.

(b) Please provide a copy of the comments/opinions of Defence (Finance) on the data or enclosures provided by TRIPAS in support of ibid letter dated 11.3.2019.

3. Please enable online payment of additional fees towards cost of photocopying and provide reply online, if acceptable.

Reply by CPIO, DESW, MoD

SPEED POST / RTI MATTER

F No. 237/RTI/2014/D (P/P) – Part II

Ministry of Defence

Department of Ex-Servicemen Welfare

D (Pen/Policy)

New Delhi, 4^th November 2019

To,

Subject: Seeking information under RTI Act, 2005 –reg

Sir,

Please refer to your online RTI application bearing Registration No. DEXSW/R/2019/50957 dated 15.09.2019 received in this office on the subject mentioned above.

2.         In this connection, it is stated that no enclosure/data was provided by TRIPAS along with their letter n. C/7206/VII CPC/84/OROP dated 11.3.2019. However, the subject of revision of OROP is being dealt in this Office file No. 1 (1)/2019/D (Pen/Pol) and if required, the information from the ibid file may be provided to you on payment of requisite fee. 

3.         Sh. A K Agrawal, Dy Secretary, Room No. 226 B Wing, Sena Bhawan, New Delhi is the first appellate authority.

Yours faithfully,

Sd/---------------

04/11/19

(Arun Kumar)

CPIO & Under Secretary (Pen/Pol)

*          *          *          *          *          *

Final Disposal in NFFU case Tomorrow 03 Oct 2019

[DISPOSAL/FINAL DISPOSAL AT ADMISSION STAGE - CIVIL CASES] 

Court No. 9

Item No.17

 C.A. No. 495-682/2018XVII

 UNION OF INDIA AND ORS represented by .MUKESH KUMAR MARORIA, ARVIND KUMARSHARM A[P-1], [P-2], [P-3],[P-4], [P-5], [P-6], [P-7], [P-8],[P-9], [P-10], [P-11], [P-12],[P-13], [P-14],[P-15], [P-16] 

Versus

 LT COL DEEPAK VOHRA ETC.represented by PRASHANT KUMAR[R-114],
GAICHANGPOUGANGMEI[R-7], [R-99],[R-103], [R-104], [R-116],[R-118], [R-187], MAHIMAGUPTA[R-9], [R-21], [R-26],[R-29],a [R-39], [R-40], [R-41],[R-46], [R-47], [R-51], [R-54],[R-65], [R-77], [R-78], [R-80],[R-92], [R-106], [R-111],[R-153], [R-160], [R-162],[R-178],a [R-178], MOHANKUMAR[R-7], [R-14], [R-27],[R-32], [R-43], [R-45], [R-57],[R-58], [R-63], [R-68], [R-69],[R-71], [R-74], [R-75], [R-86],[R-87],a [R-105], [R-125], [R-142],[R-143], [R-154], [R-155],[R-156], [R-172], [R-180],[R-183]IA No. 79591/2019 

17.1ConnectedC.A. No. 2897/2019XVII 

UNION OF INDIA AND ORS. represented by ARVIND KUMARSHARMA[P-1], [P-2]

 Versus

 IC 46298N COL MUKUL DEV represented by MAHIMA GUPTA [R-1]IA

Comparative Tables on Revised (New) OROP provided by O/o PCDA (P) to JS (ESW) - Updated

Dear Readers,

Before you read this, I wish to draw your attention to a WhatsApp message floating around purportedly from Brig Vidyasagar of TSEWA asking for copies of e-PPO for some action he proposes to take. I would advise you to wait for the RM appointed Committee to submit its report before you send copies of your e-PPO. Discretion is yours.
   
Disclaimers

Firstly, you are requested to bear in mind that the contents of this post are reproduced from the reply provided by MoD/DESW to RTI application is as faithful a manner as possible. 

Secondly, how and the why of the tables and amounts are given where it has been provided in the reply. 

Thirdly, this NOT the Revised/Equalisation of OROP. It is just a sample presented to JS (ESW).

Finally, your views may be communicated to the hon'ble RM for inclusion/consideration of the Committee constituted for revision of OROP. 

Reply to DEXSW 50750 on Comparative Tables

Online RTI Request Form Details

RTI Request Details:-

RTI Request Registration number DEXSW/R/2019/50750 (also duplicated as No. 50752  due to technical problem with the Online RTI site)

Public Authority Department of Ex-Servicemen Welfare

Personal Details of RTI Applicant:-

Name Air Mshl S Y Savur PVSM AVSM retd

Request Details:-

Description of Information Sought

Sir,

Please provide information by way of a photocopy of the Comparative Statement submitted by PCDA (P) Allahabad in the meeting taken by the JS (ESW) on 24.4.2019 as recorded at Para 3 on Page 6 of File number 1(1)/2019/D(Pen/Pol).

2. The information may be provided online if the CPIO so desires.

3. Please enable payment online for additional fees, if any.

Reply received on 20 Aug 2019

SPEED-POST/RTI MATTER

F No. 237/RTI/2014/D (P/P) – Part III

Ministry of Defence

Department of Ex-Servicemen Welfare

D (Pen/Policy)

New Delhi, dated 20.08.2019

To,

Subject: Seeking information under RTI Act, 2005 – reg.

Sir,

            Please refer to your two online RTI applications bearing Registration No. (1) DEXSW/R/2019/50750 dated 20.7.2019 and (2) DEXSW/R/2019/50752 dated 20.7.2019 received in this office on similar lines on the subject mentioned above.

2.         In this connection, please find enclosed a copy of Comparative statement submitted by PCDA (P), Allahabad during the meeting held on 24.04.2019 in the chamber of JS (ESW) consisting of 16 pages. 

3.         Sh. A. K. Agrawal, Dy Secretary, Room No. 226, B Wing, Sena Bhawan, New Delhi is the first appellate authority.  

Encl: As Above

Sd/----------------20/8/19

(Ashok Kumar)

CPIO & Under Secretary (P/P)

Copy of presentation submitted by PCDA (P) Allhabad during the meeting held on 24.4.19 in the chamber of JS (ESW) by Sh A K Malviya, SAO.

*          *          *          *          *          *          *

Slide 1

New OROP

In 7^th CPC

If base year is 2018

Slide 2

Hqrs Office requested MoD, the following clarifications for doing preparatory works for next OROP:

(a)        Whether same methodology for calculating the OROP rate viz. Average of min & max pension

(b)        What is base year from which data of current retirees is to be used.

(c)        The date of effect of next round of OROP.

(d)        The report of OMJC is pending with MoD, whether any recommendation is to be factored into new calculations.

Slide 3

After OROP, 7^th CPC has recommended two formulations without factoring impact of OROP orders

I – multiplying by index factor of 2.57 & revision has been done by PDAs.

II – Notional pay fixation method through PPO.

Slide 4

HQrs office has brought following points to Ministry

I -         The notional pay fixation formula brings all past pensioners to current rates, almost as if they are serving under 7^th CPC

           

            This is also the formula used in various Court judgments seeking to equate past pensioners with current retirees. For example, Hon’ble Supreme Court judgment in SPS Vains Vs UoI (2008) and in DS Nakara case.

            As such it is matter of consideration as to whether any logic exists to initiate the process of OROP once pension of past and current pensioners has been equated w.e.f. 1.1.2016.

Slide 5

II -       The notional pay based revision of defence pensioners has commenced. The final pension of past pensioners (as on 1.1.2016) is not available until this is completed. Therefore, data for comparing past pensioners and current pensioner is incomplete to that extent. 

III -      The application of multiplying factor to OROP pension has created an anomaly whereby past pensioners are drawing higher pension than those who have retired between 1.7.2014 to 31.12.2015 and post 1.1.2016 retirees.

            If this anomaly turns out to be widespread, the logic of revising pension of past retirees to bring them to the level of current pensioners would not subsist.

Slide 6

Category	Period	No. of Data obtained from EDP	No. of data analysed	No. of cases where OROP is beneficial
ICOs	Post OROP 1.7.2014 to 31.12.2015	1246	1246	375
	Post 7th CPC 1.1.2016 to March 2019	3296	3296	435
JCOs/ORs	Post OROP 1.7.2014 to 31.12.2015	57356	53276	27085
	Post 7th CPC 1.1.2016 to March 2019	186381	180765	48647

Margin observation in pen: what about those who got OROP?

Slide 7

Contents illegible

Slide 8

JCOs/ORs
Rank, Group & QS Comparison in proposed OROP based on live data	Hav “Y” QS = 24	Nb Sub “Y” QS= 26	Sub “Y” QS =28	Sub Maj “X” QS = 30
Pension in New OROP based Live data of year 2018	21207	24250	30825	35425
OROP Rate x 2.57 as on 1.1.2016	20067	26741	31529	36340

Slide 9

However the data of ICOs shows reverse pattern as under

ICOs
Ranks & QS Comparison in Proposed OROP based on live data	May QS=24	Lt Col QS=26	Colonel QS=28	Brigadier QS=30	Maj Gen QS=35
Pension in New OROP based on live data of year 2018	53000	94100	100900	105850	109100
OROP Rate x 2.57 as on 1.1.2016	61208	84330	90542	95797	99621

Slide 10

Comparative Statement of ICOs retired after OROP but getting pension less than OROP Rate

Period	Retired in Post OROP (1.7.2014 to 31.12.2015)
Rank	Total No of Pensioners	No. of pensioners getting less than OROP rate	%
Major	4	3	75.00%
Lt Col	255	197	77.25%
Col (TS)	505	62	12.28%
Colonel	266	32	12.03%
Brigadier	99	3	3.03%
Major General	92	76	82.61%
Lt Gen	2	2	100%
Lt Gen (HAG+)	23	0	0.00%
Total	1246	375

Slide 11

Comparative Statement of PBOR retired after OROP but getting pension less than OROP rate

Period	Retired in Post OROP (1.7.2014 to 31.12.2015)
Rank	Total No. of pensioners	No. of pensioners getting less than OROP rate	%
Sep	291	122	41.92
Naik	3099	308	9.94
Hav	25839	3557	13.77
Naib Sub	12910	12307	95.33
Sub	9986	9843	98.57
Sub Major	1151	948	82.36
Total	53276	27085

Slide 12

Comparative Statement of PBOR retired after OROP but getting pension less than OROP rate

Period	Retired in Post OROP (1.1.2016 to March 2019)
Rank	Total No. of pensioners	No. of pensioners getting less than OROP rate	%
Sep	3510	70	1.99
Naik	18383	107	0.58
Hav	102714	308	0.30
Naib Sub	29596	23425	79.15
Sub	23319	22555	96.72
Sub Major	3243	2182	67.28
Total	180765	48647

Slide 13

Sepoy Group ‘Y’
QS	OROP rate	OROP x 2.57	Average of min & max (Yr 2018	OROP beneficial over 7th CPC	Beneficial amount
15	6665	17130	18275
16	6665	17130	15173	OROP beneficial	1957
17	6665	17130	15557	OROP beneficial	1573
18	6698	17214	18207
19	6783	17433	18378
20	6875	17669	19060
21	6875	17669	15613	OROP beneficial	2056
22	6875	17669	18150

Slide 14

Naik Group ‘Y’
QS	OROP rate	OROP x 2.57	Average of min & max (Yr 2018	OROP beneficial over 7th CPC	Beneficial amount
17	7170	18427	19832
18	7170	18427	20307
19	7170	18427	20269
20	7170	18427	20582
21	7170	18427	20213
22	7170	18427	19107
23.5	7170	18427	20157
24	7170	18427	20438

Slide 15

Havildar Group ‘Y’
QS	OROP rate	OROP x 2.57	Average of min & max (Yr 2018	OROP beneficial over 7th CPC	Beneficial amount
17	7598	19527	20907
18	7598	19527	21101
19	7693	19772	21407
20	7795	20034	21207
22	7795	20034	21950
24	7808	20067	21207
25	7808	20067	20463
26	7995	20548	20850
26.5	7995	20548	20325	OROP beneficial	223
35			22225
36			22500
37			22800
38			22200

Slide 16

Nb Subedar Group ‘Y’
QS	OROP rate	OROP x 2.57	Average of min & max (Yr 2018	OROP beneficial over 7th CPC	Beneficial amount
22	9005	23143	24125
22.5	9338	23999	24125
23	9338	23999	24125
23.5	9338	23999	24475
24	9429	24233	24175	OROP beneficial	58
24.5	9652	24806	23550	OROP beneficial	1256
25	9733	25014	23550	OROP beneficial	1464
25.5	9946	25562	23550	OROP beneficial	2012
26	10405	26741	24250	OROP beneficial	2491
26.5	10415	26767	24175	OROP beneficial	2592
27	10415	26767	23825	OROP beneficial	2942
27.5.	10577	27183	25375	OROP beneficial	1808
28	10742	27607	18050	OROP beneficial	9557

Slide 17

Subedar Group ‘Y’
QS	OROP rate	OROP x 2.57	Average of min & max (Yr 2018)	OROP beneficial over 7th CPC	Beneficial amount
22.5	11150	28656	26450	OROP Beneficial	2206
23	11150	28656	26075	OROP Beneficial	2581
24	11150	28656	26775	OROP Beneficial	1881
25	11150	28656	26075	OROP Beneficial	2581
26	11427	29368	26825	OROP Beneficial	2543
27	11859	30478	27950	OROP Beneficial	2528
28	12268	31529	30825	OROP Beneficial	704
29	12268	31529	27950	OROP Beneficial	3579
30	12690	32614	31150	OROP beneficial	1464
37			25700
38			25700
39			26400
38			22200

Slide 18

Subedar Major Group ‘Y’
QS	OROP rate	OROP x 2.57	Average of min & max (Yr 2018	OROP beneficial over 7th CPC	Beneficial amount
24	12565	32293	33100
25	12565	32293	30700	OROP beneficial	1593
26	12565	32293	30700	OROP beneficial	1593
27	12565	32293	32500
28	12757	32786	31725	OROP beneficial	1061
29	13045	33526	30400	OROP beneficial	3126
30	13045	33526	33625
31	13045	33526	31725	OROP beneficial	1801
32	13045	33526	32225	OROP beneficial	1301
33	13045	33526	33250	OROP beneficial	276
36			31900

Slide 19

Major
QS	Count	OROP rate	OROP x 2.57	Average of min & max (Yr 2018	Whether OROP beneficial
16	1	21530	55333	47950	7383
21	1	22830	58674	47950	10724
21.5	1	22830	58674	68550	Not beneficial
22.5	1	23815	61205	47950	13225
24.5	1	23815	61205	53000	8205

Slide 20

Lt Col
QS	Count	OROP rate	OROP x 2.57	Average of min & max (Yr 2018	Whether OROP beneficial
20	2	31305	80454	80100	354
21	13	31713	81503	83575	Not beneficial
22	11	32428	83340	82300	1040
23	7	32428	83340	86825	Not beneficial
24	10	32428	83340	89300	Not beneficial
34	11	34765	89347	81800	7547

Slide 21

Colonel
QS	Count	OROP rate	OROP x 2.57	Average of min & max (Yr 2018	Whether OROP beneficial
28	6	35230	90452	100900	Not beneficial
29	9	35235	90554	10900	Not beneficial
30	11	36130	92855	102350	Not beneficial
31	10	36130	92855	103700	Not beneficial
32	26	36130	92855	103700	Not beneficial
33	16	36130	92855	95000	Not benefical

Slide 22

Brigadier
QS	Count	OROP rate	OROP x 2.57	Average of min & max (Yr 2018	Whether OROP beneficial
32	3	37280	95810	105850	Not beneficial
33	8	37570	96555	108800	Not beneficial
33.5	9	37570	96555	107350	Not beneficial
34	16	37570	96555	107350	Not beneficial
34.5	17	37570	96555	108800	Not beneficial
35	15	37570	96555	107350	Not benefical

Slide 23

Colonel (TS)
QS	Count	OROP rate	OROP x 2.57	Average of min & max (Yr 2018	Whether OROP beneficial
28.5	12	35230	90542	100900	Not beneficial
29	19	35235	90554	100900	Not beneficial
30	33	36130	92855	100900	Not beneficial
30.5	45	36130	92855	100900	Not beneficial
31	38	36130	92855	102250	Not beneficial
32	45	36130	92855	103700	Not beneficial
33	39	36130	92855	103700	Not beneficial

Slide 24

Maj Gen
QS	Count	OROP rate	OROP x 2.57	Average of min & max (Yr 2018	Whether OROP beneficial
36	6	38763	99621	109100	Not beneficial
36.5	13	38763	99621	107500	Not beneficial
37	17	38763	99621	109100	Not beneficial
37.5	10	38763	99621	107500	Not beneficial
38	3	38763	99621	109100	Not beneficial

Slide 25

Lt Gen
QS	Count	OROP rate	OROP x 2.57	Average of min & max (Yr 2018	Whether OROP beneficial
39	1	39500	101515	112050	Not beneficial
Army Cdr
38.5	2	40000	102800	112500	Not beneficial
VCOAS
39	1	40000	102800	112500	Not beneficial
Lt Gen (HAG+)
37.5	3	40000	102800	112200	Not beneficial

Slide 26

Effect of Modification dated 18 Aug 2010 on 7^th CPC

Rank & Group	Hav “Y” QS=24	Nb Sub “Y” QS=26	Sub “Y” QS=28	Sub Maj “Y” QS=30
5th CPC
Pay Scale	3600-100-5100	5620-140-8140	6600-170-9320	7250-200-10050
Class Allow	50+50+50
Last Pat drawn	4400	6180	7280	8250
Pay for pension (Max of py scale)	5100	8140	9320	10050
Pension=  Max of pay scale + 50% of highest class allowance/2 x QS + weightage /33
QS	24	26	28	30
Pension calculation	5100+75/2 x 24=5/33	8140/2 x 26+5/33	9320/2 x 28+5/33	10050/2 x 30+5/33
Pension	2274	3824	4660	5025

Slide 27

6th CPC	Hav “Y” QS=24	Nb Sub “Y” QS=26	Sub “Y” QS=28	Sub Maj “X” QS=30
Pay Band	PB-1 (5200-20200	PB-II (9300-34800	PB-II 9300-34800	PB-11 9300-34800
Grade Pay	2800	4200	4600	4800
MSP	2000	2000	2000	2000
Group “X” Pay	-	-	-	1400
Classification Allow (100+100+100)	100
Pay in Pay Band	8190	11970	14100	16590
Last Pay drawn (total)	13090	18170	20700	24790
Pension = Last pay +MSP+GP+Gp X Pay + actual classification x 50%
Pension formulation as per 6th CPC	6545	9085	10350	12395
Pension as per MoD dt 18.8.2010 = Notional max across the three services in fitment table for 6th CPC corresponding to the maximum of 5th CPC pay scale for rank & group last held
Emoluments for pension across the three services as per Mod 18.8.2010	15210	21350	23940	27180
Pension (formulation as per MoD  dt 18.8.2010)	7375	10029	11970	13590
Pension beneficial between two formulations	7375	10029	11970	13590
OROP rate as on 1.7.2014	7808	10405	12268	14140
OROP Rate x 2.57 as on 1.1.2016	20067	25741	31529	36340

Slide 28

7th CPC	Hav “Y” QS=24	Nb Sub “Y” QS=26	Sub “Y” QS=28	Sub Maj “X” QS=30
Pay Level in Pay Matrix	L-05	L-06	L-07	L-08
Pay in Pay Matrix	37000	43600	50500	60400
MSP	5200	5200	5200	5200
Classification allowance (225+225+225)	450
Group “X” Pay	-	-	-
Last pay drawn (total)	42650	48800	55700	65600
Pension as per 7th CPC provisions	21325	24400	27850	32800
If methodology for calculation of Pension proposed in the same line of MoD dt 18.8.2010 = Notional max across the three services in pay matrix of 7th CPC corresponding to fitment table for 6th CPC which was earlier corresponding to maximum of 5th CPC pay scale for rank & group last held
Emoluments for pension across the three services processed in the same line of MoD dt 18.8.2010	34900	50500	56900	62200
MSP	5200	5200	5200	5200
Classification allowance (225+225+225)	450
Group “X” Pay				3600
Notional emolument for pension max across three services	40550	55700	62100	71000
Pension as per proposed formulation	19661	26163	31050	35500
Pension beneficial between the two formulations	21325	26163	31050	35500
OROP rate x 2.57 as on 1.1.2016	20067	26741	31520	36340

Slide 29

Rank, Group & QS Comparison in various proposals	Hav “Y” QS=24	Nb Sub “Y” QS=26	Sub “Y” QS=28	Sub Maj “X” QS=30
OROP Rate x 2.57 as on 1.1.2016	20067	26741	31529	36340
Pension as per 7th CPC provisions	21325	24400	27850	32800
Pension as proposed on MoD order dated 18 Aug 2010	19661	26163	31050	35500
Pension in New OROP based on live data of year 2018	21207	24250	30825	35425

Slide 30

Rank & QS Comparison in various proposals	Major QS=24	Lt Col QS=26	Colonel QS=28	Brigadier QS=30	Maj Gen QS=35
OROP Rate x 2.57 as on 1.1.2016	61205	84430	90542	95797	99621
Pension as per 7th CPC provisions	53000	94100	103650	107300	109100
Pension in New OROP based on live data of year 2018	5300	94100	100900	105850	109100

Slide 31

THANKS

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