Dear Readers,
Before you read this, I wish to draw your attention to a WhatsApp message floating around purportedly from Brig Vidyasagar of TSEWA asking for copies of e-PPO for some action he proposes to take. I would advise you to wait for the RM appointed Committee to submit its report before you send copies of your e-PPO. Discretion is yours.
Disclaimers
Firstly, you are requested to bear in mind that the contents of this post are reproduced from the reply provided by MoD/DESW to RTI application is as faithful a manner as possible.
Secondly, how and the why of the tables and amounts are given where it has been provided in the reply.
Thirdly, this NOT the Revised/Equalisation of OROP. It is just a sample presented to JS (ESW).
Thirdly, this NOT the Revised/Equalisation of OROP. It is just a sample presented to JS (ESW).
Finally, your views may be communicated to the hon'ble RM for inclusion/consideration of the Committee constituted for revision of OROP.
Reply to DEXSW 50750 on Comparative Tables
Online RTI Request Form
Details
RTI Request
Details:-
RTI Request Registration
number DEXSW/R/2019/50750
(also duplicated as No. 50752 due to
technical problem with the Online RTI site)
Public Authority Department of Ex-Servicemen
Welfare
Personal Details of
RTI Applicant:-
Name Air Mshl S Y Savur PVSM AVSM
retd
Request Details:-
Description of
Information Sought
Sir,
Please provide information by
way of a photocopy of the Comparative Statement submitted by PCDA (P) Allahabad
in the meeting taken by the JS (ESW) on 24.4.2019 as recorded at Para 3 on Page
6 of File number 1(1)/2019/D(Pen/Pol).
2. The information may be
provided online if the CPIO so desires.
3. Please enable payment
online for additional fees, if any.
Reply received on 20 Aug 2019
SPEED-POST/RTI MATTER
F
No. 237/RTI/2014/D (P/P) – Part III
Ministry
of Defence
Department
of Ex-Servicemen Welfare
D
(Pen/Policy)
New
Delhi, dated 20.08.2019
To,
Subject: Seeking information
under RTI Act, 2005 – reg.
Sir,
Please refer to your two online RTI
applications bearing Registration No. (1) DEXSW/R/2019/50750 dated 20.7.2019
and (2) DEXSW/R/2019/50752 dated 20.7.2019 received in this office on similar
lines on the subject mentioned above.
2. In this connection, please find enclosed a copy of
Comparative statement submitted by PCDA (P), Allahabad during the meeting held
on 24.04.2019 in the chamber of JS (ESW) consisting of 16 pages.
3. Sh. A. K. Agrawal, Dy Secretary, Room No. 226, B Wing, Sena
Bhawan, New Delhi is the first appellate authority.
Encl: As Above
Sd/----------------20/8/19
(Ashok
Kumar)
CPIO
& Under Secretary (P/P)
Copy of presentation submitted
by PCDA (P) Allhabad during the meeting held on 24.4.19 in the chamber of JS
(ESW) by Sh A K Malviya, SAO.
* * * * * * *
Slide 1
New OROP
In
7th CPC
If
base year is 2018
Slide 2
Hqrs Office requested MoD, the
following clarifications for doing preparatory works for next OROP:
(a) Whether same methodology for calculating the OROP rate viz.
Average of min & max pension
(b) What is base year from which data of current retirees is to
be used.
(c) The date of effect of next round of OROP.
(d) The report of OMJC is pending with MoD,
whether any recommendation is to be factored into new calculations.
Slide 3
After OROP, 7th CPC
has recommended two formulations without factoring impact of OROP orders
I – multiplying by index
factor of 2.57 & revision has been done by PDAs.
II – Notional pay fixation
method through PPO.
Slide 4
HQrs office has brought
following points to Ministry
I - The notional pay fixation formula
brings all past pensioners to current rates, almost as if they are serving
under 7th CPC
This is also the formula used in
various Court judgments seeking to equate past pensioners with current
retirees. For example, Hon’ble Supreme Court judgment in SPS Vains Vs UoI
(2008) and in DS Nakara case.
As such it is matter of consideration as to whether any
logic exists to initiate the process of OROP once pension of past and current
pensioners has been equated w.e.f. 1.1.2016.
Slide 5
II
- The notional pay based revision of
defence pensioners has commenced. The final pension of past pensioners (as on
1.1.2016) is not available until this is completed. Therefore, data for
comparing past pensioners and current pensioner is incomplete to that extent.
III - The application of multiplying factor to OROP pension has
created an anomaly whereby past pensioners are drawing higher pension than
those who have retired between 1.7.2014 to 31.12.2015 and post 1.1.2016
retirees.
If this anomaly
turns out to be widespread, the logic of revising pension of past retirees to
bring them to the level of current pensioners would not subsist.
Slide 6
Category
|
Period
|
No. of Data obtained from EDP
|
No. of data analysed
|
No. of cases where OROP is beneficial
|
ICOs
|
Post OROP 1.7.2014 to 31.12.2015
|
1246
|
1246
|
375
|
Post 7th CPC 1.1.2016 to March 2019
|
3296
|
3296
|
435
|
|
JCOs/ORs
|
Post OROP 1.7.2014 to 31.12.2015
|
57356
|
53276
|
27085
|
Post 7th CPC 1.1.2016 to March 2019
|
186381
|
180765
|
48647
|
Margin observation in pen: what about those who got OROP?
Slide 7
Contents
illegible
Slide 8
JCOs/ORs
|
||||
Rank, Group & QS Comparison in proposed OROP based on live
data
|
Hav “Y”
QS = 24
|
Nb Sub “Y”
QS= 26
|
Sub “Y”
QS =28
|
Sub Maj “X”
QS = 30
|
Pension in New OROP based Live data of year 2018
|
21207
|
24250
|
30825
|
35425
|
OROP Rate x 2.57 as on 1.1.2016
|
20067
|
26741
|
31529
|
36340
|
Slide 9
However the data of ICOs shows
reverse pattern as under
ICOs
|
|||||
Ranks & QS
Comparison in Proposed OROP based on live data
|
May
QS=24
|
Lt Col
QS=26
|
Colonel
QS=28
|
Brigadier
QS=30
|
Maj Gen
QS=35
|
Pension in New OROP based on live data of year 2018
|
53000
|
94100
|
100900
|
105850
|
109100
|
OROP Rate x 2.57 as on 1.1.2016
|
61208
|
84330
|
90542
|
95797
|
99621
|
Slide 10
Comparative Statement of ICOs
retired after OROP but getting pension less than OROP Rate
Period
|
Retired in Post OROP
(1.7.2014 to 31.12.2015)
|
||
Rank
|
Total No of Pensioners
|
No. of pensioners getting
less than OROP rate
|
%
|
Major
|
4
|
3
|
75.00%
|
Lt Col
|
255
|
197
|
77.25%
|
Col (TS)
|
505
|
62
|
12.28%
|
Colonel
|
266
|
32
|
12.03%
|
Brigadier
|
99
|
3
|
3.03%
|
Major General
|
92
|
76
|
82.61%
|
Lt Gen
|
2
|
2
|
100%
|
Lt Gen (HAG+)
|
23
|
0
|
0.00%
|
Total
|
1246
|
375
|
|
Slide 11
Comparative
Statement of PBOR retired after OROP but getting pension less than OROP rate
Period
|
Retired in Post OROP
(1.7.2014 to 31.12.2015)
|
||
Rank
|
Total No. of pensioners
|
No. of pensioners getting
less than OROP rate
|
%
|
Sep
|
291
|
122
|
41.92
|
Naik
|
3099
|
308
|
9.94
|
Hav
|
25839
|
3557
|
13.77
|
Naib Sub
|
12910
|
12307
|
95.33
|
Sub
|
9986
|
9843
|
98.57
|
Sub Major
|
1151
|
948
|
82.36
|
Total
|
53276
|
27085
|
|
Slide 12
Comparative
Statement of PBOR retired after OROP but getting pension less than OROP rate
Period
|
Retired in Post OROP (1.1.2016
to March 2019)
|
||
Rank
|
Total No. of pensioners
|
No. of pensioners getting
less than OROP rate
|
%
|
Sep
|
3510
|
70
|
1.99
|
Naik
|
18383
|
107
|
0.58
|
Hav
|
102714
|
308
|
0.30
|
Naib Sub
|
29596
|
23425
|
79.15
|
Sub
|
23319
|
22555
|
96.72
|
Sub Major
|
3243
|
2182
|
67.28
|
Total
|
180765
|
48647
|
|
Slide 13
Sepoy Group ‘Y’
|
|||||
QS
|
OROP rate
|
OROP x 2.57
|
Average of min & max (Yr
2018
|
OROP beneficial over 7th
CPC
|
Beneficial amount
|
15
|
6665
|
17130
|
18275
|
||
16
|
6665
|
17130
|
15173
|
OROP beneficial
|
1957
|
17
|
6665
|
17130
|
15557
|
OROP beneficial
|
1573
|
18
|
6698
|
17214
|
18207
|
||
19
|
6783
|
17433
|
18378
|
||
20
|
6875
|
17669
|
19060
|
||
21
|
6875
|
17669
|
15613
|
OROP beneficial
|
2056
|
22
|
6875
|
17669
|
18150
|
||
Slide 14
Naik Group ‘Y’
|
|||||
QS
|
OROP rate
|
OROP x 2.57
|
Average of min & max (Yr
2018
|
OROP beneficial over 7th
CPC
|
Beneficial amount
|
17
|
7170
|
18427
|
19832
|
||
18
|
7170
|
18427
|
20307
|
||
19
|
7170
|
18427
|
20269
|
||
20
|
7170
|
18427
|
20582
|
||
21
|
7170
|
18427
|
20213
|
||
22
|
7170
|
18427
|
19107
|
||
23.5
|
7170
|
18427
|
20157
|
||
24
|
7170
|
18427
|
20438
|
||
Slide 15
Havildar Group ‘Y’
|
|||||
QS
|
OROP rate
|
OROP x 2.57
|
Average of min & max (Yr
2018
|
OROP beneficial over 7th
CPC
|
Beneficial amount
|
17
|
7598
|
19527
|
20907
|
||
18
|
7598
|
19527
|
21101
|
||
19
|
7693
|
19772
|
21407
|
||
20
|
7795
|
20034
|
21207
|
||
22
|
7795
|
20034
|
21950
|
||
24
|
7808
|
20067
|
21207
|
||
25
|
7808
|
20067
|
20463
|
||
26
|
7995
|
20548
|
20850
|
||
26.5
|
7995
|
20548
|
20325
|
OROP beneficial
|
223
|
35
|
22225
|
||||
36
|
22500
|
||||
37
|
22800
|
||||
38
|
22200
|
||||
Slide 16
Nb Subedar Group ‘Y’
|
|||||
QS
|
OROP rate
|
OROP x 2.57
|
Average of min & max (Yr
2018
|
OROP beneficial over 7th
CPC
|
Beneficial amount
|
22
|
9005
|
23143
|
24125
|
||
22.5
|
9338
|
23999
|
24125
|
||
23
|
9338
|
23999
|
24125
|
||
23.5
|
9338
|
23999
|
24475
|
||
24
|
9429
|
24233
|
24175
|
OROP beneficial
|
58
|
24.5
|
9652
|
24806
|
23550
|
OROP beneficial
|
1256
|
25
|
9733
|
25014
|
23550
|
OROP beneficial
|
1464
|
25.5
|
9946
|
25562
|
23550
|
OROP beneficial
|
2012
|
26
|
10405
|
26741
|
24250
|
OROP beneficial
|
2491
|
26.5
|
10415
|
26767
|
24175
|
OROP beneficial
|
2592
|
27
|
10415
|
26767
|
23825
|
OROP beneficial
|
2942
|
27.5.
|
10577
|
27183
|
25375
|
OROP beneficial
|
1808
|
28
|
10742
|
27607
|
18050
|
OROP beneficial
|
9557
|
Slide 17
Subedar Group ‘Y’
|
|||||
QS
|
OROP rate
|
OROP x 2.57
|
Average of min & max (Yr
2018)
|
OROP beneficial over 7th
CPC
|
Beneficial amount
|
22.5
|
11150
|
28656
|
26450
|
OROP Beneficial
|
2206
|
23
|
11150
|
28656
|
26075
|
OROP Beneficial
|
2581
|
24
|
11150
|
28656
|
26775
|
OROP Beneficial
|
1881
|
25
|
11150
|
28656
|
26075
|
OROP Beneficial
|
2581
|
26
|
11427
|
29368
|
26825
|
OROP Beneficial
|
2543
|
27
|
11859
|
30478
|
27950
|
OROP Beneficial
|
2528
|
28
|
12268
|
31529
|
30825
|
OROP Beneficial
|
704
|
29
|
12268
|
31529
|
27950
|
OROP Beneficial
|
3579
|
30
|
12690
|
32614
|
31150
|
OROP beneficial
|
1464
|
37
|
25700
|
||||
38
|
25700
|
||||
39
|
26400
|
||||
38
|
22200
|
||||
Slide 18
Subedar Major Group ‘Y’
|
|||||
QS
|
OROP rate
|
OROP x 2.57
|
Average of min & max (Yr
2018
|
OROP beneficial over 7th
CPC
|
Beneficial amount
|
24
|
12565
|
32293
|
33100
|
||
25
|
12565
|
32293
|
30700
|
OROP beneficial
|
1593
|
26
|
12565
|
32293
|
30700
|
OROP beneficial
|
1593
|
27
|
12565
|
32293
|
32500
|
||
28
|
12757
|
32786
|
31725
|
OROP beneficial
|
1061
|
29
|
13045
|
33526
|
30400
|
OROP beneficial
|
3126
|
30
|
13045
|
33526
|
33625
|
||
31
|
13045
|
33526
|
31725
|
OROP beneficial
|
1801
|
32
|
13045
|
33526
|
32225
|
OROP beneficial
|
1301
|
33
|
13045
|
33526
|
33250
|
OROP beneficial
|
276
|
36
|
31900
|
||||
Slide 19
Major
|
|||||
QS
|
Count
|
OROP rate
|
OROP x 2.57
|
Average of min & max (Yr
2018
|
Whether OROP beneficial
|
16
|
1
|
21530
|
55333
|
47950
|
7383
|
21
|
1
|
22830
|
58674
|
47950
|
10724
|
21.5
|
1
|
22830
|
58674
|
68550
|
Not beneficial
|
22.5
|
1
|
23815
|
61205
|
47950
|
13225
|
24.5
|
1
|
23815
|
61205
|
53000
|
8205
|
Slide 20
Lt Col
|
|||||
QS
|
Count
|
OROP rate
|
OROP x 2.57
|
Average of min & max (Yr
2018
|
Whether OROP beneficial
|
20
|
2
|
31305
|
80454
|
80100
|
354
|
21
|
13
|
31713
|
81503
|
83575
|
Not beneficial
|
22
|
11
|
32428
|
83340
|
82300
|
1040
|
23
|
7
|
32428
|
83340
|
86825
|
Not beneficial
|
24
|
10
|
32428
|
83340
|
89300
|
Not beneficial
|
34
|
11
|
34765
|
89347
|
81800
|
7547
|
Slide 21
Colonel
|
|||||
QS
|
Count
|
OROP rate
|
OROP x 2.57
|
Average of min & max (Yr
2018
|
Whether OROP beneficial
|
28
|
6
|
35230
|
90452
|
100900
|
Not beneficial
|
29
|
9
|
35235
|
90554
|
10900
|
Not beneficial
|
30
|
11
|
36130
|
92855
|
102350
|
Not beneficial
|
31
|
10
|
36130
|
92855
|
103700
|
Not beneficial
|
32
|
26
|
36130
|
92855
|
103700
|
Not beneficial
|
33
|
16
|
36130
|
92855
|
95000
|
Not benefical
|
Slide 22
Brigadier
|
|||||
QS
|
Count
|
OROP rate
|
OROP x 2.57
|
Average of min & max (Yr
2018
|
Whether OROP beneficial
|
32
|
3
|
37280
|
95810
|
105850
|
Not beneficial
|
33
|
8
|
37570
|
96555
|
108800
|
Not beneficial
|
33.5
|
9
|
37570
|
96555
|
107350
|
Not beneficial
|
34
|
16
|
37570
|
96555
|
107350
|
Not beneficial
|
34.5
|
17
|
37570
|
96555
|
108800
|
Not beneficial
|
35
|
15
|
37570
|
96555
|
107350
|
Not benefical
|
Slide 23
Colonel (TS)
|
|||||
QS
|
Count
|
OROP rate
|
OROP x 2.57
|
Average of min & max (Yr
2018
|
Whether OROP beneficial
|
28.5
|
12
|
35230
|
90542
|
100900
|
Not beneficial
|
29
|
19
|
35235
|
90554
|
100900
|
Not beneficial
|
30
|
33
|
36130
|
92855
|
100900
|
Not beneficial
|
30.5
|
45
|
36130
|
92855
|
100900
|
Not beneficial
|
31
|
38
|
36130
|
92855
|
102250
|
Not beneficial
|
32
|
45
|
36130
|
92855
|
103700
|
Not beneficial
|
33
|
39
|
36130
|
92855
|
103700
|
Not beneficial
|
Slide 24
Maj Gen
|
|||||
QS
|
Count
|
OROP rate
|
OROP x 2.57
|
Average of min & max (Yr
2018
|
Whether OROP beneficial
|
36
|
6
|
38763
|
99621
|
109100
|
Not beneficial
|
36.5
|
13
|
38763
|
99621
|
107500
|
Not beneficial
|
37
|
17
|
38763
|
99621
|
109100
|
Not beneficial
|
37.5
|
10
|
38763
|
99621
|
107500
|
Not beneficial
|
38
|
3
|
38763
|
99621
|
109100
|
Not beneficial
|
Slide 25
Lt Gen
|
|||||
QS
|
Count
|
OROP rate
|
OROP x 2.57
|
Average of min & max (Yr
2018
|
Whether OROP beneficial
|
39
|
1
|
39500
|
101515
|
112050
|
Not beneficial
|
Army Cdr
|
|||||
38.5
|
2
|
40000
|
102800
|
112500
|
Not beneficial
|
VCOAS
|
|||||
39
|
1
|
40000
|
102800
|
112500
|
Not beneficial
|
Lt Gen (HAG+)
|
|||||
37.5
|
3
|
40000
|
102800
|
112200
|
Not beneficial
|
Slide 26
Effect of Modification dated
18 Aug 2010 on 7th CPC
Rank & Group
|
Hav “Y”
QS=24
|
Nb Sub “Y”
QS=26
|
Sub “Y”
QS=28
|
Sub Maj “Y”
QS=30
|
5th CPC
|
||||
Pay Scale
|
3600-100-5100
|
5620-140-8140
|
6600-170-9320
|
7250-200-10050
|
Class Allow
|
50+50+50
|
|||
Last Pat drawn
|
4400
|
6180
|
7280
|
8250
|
Pay for pension (Max of py scale)
|
5100
|
8140
|
9320
|
10050
|
Pension= Max of pay scale
+ 50% of highest class allowance/2 x QS + weightage /33
|
||||
QS
|
24
|
26
|
28
|
30
|
Pension calculation
|
5100+75/2 x 24=5/33
|
8140/2 x 26+5/33
|
9320/2 x 28+5/33
|
10050/2 x 30+5/33
|
Pension
|
2274
|
3824
|
4660
|
5025
|
Slide 27
6th CPC
|
Hav “Y”
QS=24
|
Nb Sub “Y”
QS=26
|
Sub “Y”
QS=28
|
Sub Maj
“X” QS=30
|
Pay Band
|
PB-1 (5200-20200
|
PB-II (9300-34800
|
PB-II 9300-34800
|
PB-11 9300-34800
|
Grade Pay
|
2800
|
4200
|
4600
|
4800
|
MSP
|
2000
|
2000
|
2000
|
2000
|
Group “X” Pay
|
-
|
-
|
-
|
1400
|
Classification Allow (100+100+100)
|
100
|
|||
Pay in Pay Band
|
8190
|
11970
|
14100
|
16590
|
Last Pay drawn (total)
|
13090
|
18170
|
20700
|
24790
|
Pension = Last pay +MSP+GP+Gp X Pay + actual classification x
50%
|
||||
Pension formulation as per 6th CPC
|
6545
|
9085
|
10350
|
12395
|
Pension as per MoD dt 18.8.2010 = Notional max across the three
services in fitment table for 6th CPC corresponding to the maximum
of 5th CPC pay scale for rank & group last held
|
||||
Emoluments for pension across the three services as per Mod
18.8.2010
|
15210
|
21350
|
23940
|
27180
|
Pension (formulation as per MoD
dt 18.8.2010)
|
7375
|
10029
|
11970
|
13590
|
Pension beneficial between
two formulations
|
7375
|
10029
|
11970
|
13590
|
OROP rate as on 1.7.2014
|
7808
|
10405
|
12268
|
14140
|
OROP Rate x 2.57 as on 1.1.2016
|
20067
|
25741
|
31529
|
36340
|
Slide 28
7th CPC
|
Hav “Y”
QS=24
|
Nb Sub “Y”
QS=26
|
Sub “Y”
QS=28
|
Sub Maj
“X” QS=30
|
Pay Level in Pay Matrix
|
L-05
|
L-06
|
L-07
|
L-08
|
Pay in Pay Matrix
|
37000
|
43600
|
50500
|
60400
|
MSP
|
5200
|
5200
|
5200
|
5200
|
Classification allowance (225+225+225)
|
450
|
|||
Group “X” Pay
|
-
|
-
|
-
|
|
Last pay drawn (total)
|
42650
|
48800
|
55700
|
65600
|
Pension as per 7th CPC provisions
|
21325
|
24400
|
27850
|
32800
|
If methodology for calculation of Pension proposed in the same
line of MoD dt 18.8.2010 = Notional max across the three services in pay
matrix of 7th CPC corresponding to fitment table for 6th
CPC which was earlier corresponding to maximum of 5th CPC pay
scale for rank & group last held
|
||||
Emoluments for pension across the three services processed in
the same line of MoD dt 18.8.2010
|
34900
|
50500
|
56900
|
62200
|
MSP
|
5200
|
5200
|
5200
|
5200
|
Classification allowance (225+225+225)
|
450
|
|||
Group “X” Pay
|
3600
|
|||
Notional emolument for pension max across three services
|
40550
|
55700
|
62100
|
71000
|
Pension as per proposed formulation
|
19661
|
26163
|
31050
|
35500
|
Pension beneficial between
the two formulations
|
21325
|
26163
|
31050
|
35500
|
OROP rate x 2.57 as on 1.1.2016
|
20067
|
26741
|
31520
|
36340
|
Slide 29
Rank, Group & QS
Comparison in various
proposals
|
Hav “Y”
QS=24
|
Nb Sub “Y”
QS=26
|
Sub “Y”
QS=28
|
Sub Maj
“X” QS=30
|
OROP Rate x 2.57 as on 1.1.2016
|
20067
|
26741
|
31529
|
36340
|
Pension as per 7th CPC provisions
|
21325
|
24400
|
27850
|
32800
|
Pension as proposed on MoD order dated 18 Aug 2010
|
19661
|
26163
|
31050
|
35500
|
Pension in New OROP based on
live data of year 2018
|
21207
|
24250
|
30825
|
35425
|
Slide 30
Rank & QS
Comparison in various
proposals
|
Major
QS=24
|
Lt Col
QS=26
|
Colonel
QS=28
|
Brigadier
QS=30
|
Maj Gen
QS=35
|
OROP Rate x 2.57 as on
1.1.2016
|
61205
|
84430
|
90542
|
95797
|
99621
|
Pension as per 7th
CPC provisions
|
53000
|
94100
|
103650
|
107300
|
109100
|
Pension in New OROP based on
live data of year 2018
|
5300
|
94100
|
100900
|
105850
|
109100
|
Slide 31
THANKS
* * * * * * *
Confused the h.... out of me.
ReplyDeleteWhy dont you set out your views on the subject?
Is OROP is relevent post 7th CPC?
Please give me you name and rank to enable me to be objective.
ReplyDeleteI cannot offer my views to an Unknown.
Sergeant Arun in IAF 20 yrs service DOD sep 30,2016.
DeleteGroup "Y" information is given in slides 26 onwards.
DeleteThere is no comparative table for Hony Lts/Capts and equivalents.
ReplyDeleteArmy/Navy HCOs pension is much lesser than OROP after 1.7.14 to 31.12.15. and after 1.1.16 till now. Whereas, AF HCOs pension is higher than OROP rate.
Sir, I post the contents of replies to RTI just as I receive them. Could you please post the QS and amounts so that we may understand exactly how much and where.
DeleteSir we should just follow parliament decision koshiary committee orop and rewise as per July one 2019 and follow court decision too many cooks spoil the show pension to be protected till it is orop that's all WG CDR Jaspal Singh mine and honour should be treated with honour taking precidence and RPT no senior should draw less than junior js
DeleteSir, Koshiary report was not approved by Parliament because it was a report on a petition. There is no Court decision on OROP (WP Civil 419 of 2016). The next hearing date is not known as the lead judge (Justice Chandrchud) is busy with the Ayodhya case hearings.
DeleteQs 15.5 years ,Havildar
DeleteSir, this data unpeels yet another layer of the puzzle thrown up by notings on file shared in one of your previous blog posts.
ReplyDeleteSlide 23 in reply to RTI appears to contradict the reference to Air Cdre pensions mentioned in the notings in files.
Similarly, more questions arise from slides 19 and 20 that the reply to RTI ought to have attempted to clear up. But the reply does provide a stepping stone to obtaining further clarity with even more specific queries as here http://bit.ly/2L3VGgy
ESM are benefited tremendously with this information and efforts are now required on part of individuals, groups and associations to compile these inputs and check whether due interests of all stakeholders are protected in these fixations.
I offer no comments.
DeleteJust looking for enlightenment.
ReplyDelete1. Till 16 Dec 2004, the time frames for promotion from Maj/LCdr/Sqn Ldr to Lt Col/Cdr/Wg Cdr varied from service to service and intra-service.
2. However, from 2005 onwards promotions from Maj etc to Lt Col equiv are on completion of 13 years of service.
3. Promotions from Lt Col equiv to higher ranks would again be dependent on service and intra-service.
4. Pension being 50% of Basic Pay + MSP (+NPA), the amount would be constant for a certain QS say, 24 years i.e.all Lt Cols equiv promoted after 13 years and retiring in 24 years should be drawing the same BP + MSP (+NPA)?
Then does the average of minimum and maximum still matter when determining OROP revision for this rank i.e Lt Col & equiv?
Pension is based on commissioned service whereas Qualifying service includes the past service in ranks also. Therefore, a Lt Col with 13 yrs of commissioned service and 13 years of past service, though having more qualifying service as that of a Lt col with 20 yrs of commissioned service only, will have less pension at the time of retirement as now no weight-age is given to past service. hence, we get a case of Lt col having 24 yrs of qs drawing less pension than a Lt col with 20 yrs of commissioned service.
DeleteThank you, Sir.
DeleteCommissioned Service cannot be equated with OR Service.
DeleteGroundnut is not equal to Cashewnut.
Sir, the method of OROP fixation was far from transparent.
ReplyDeleteIt is hard to understand how circular 555 can meet the Government's own, very specific, definition of OROP.
To fully comprehend how this fixation was done, specific data may be required on these lines http://bit.ly/2NqwSSQ
I had attempted to highlight OROP variations by means of graphs in the post linked to in that table.
Pension of major not clear in slide30
ReplyDeleteCorrected. Thank you.
DeleteProposed pension of sub maj Y gp is how much
ReplyDeleteThe orop must be revised wef 01July 2019 for all the three services as the rank structure as it was done five years back on 01July2014 ,no denyal of the same is acceptable to the Retd offrs please. Thanks and regards.
ReplyDeleteSomething drastically wrong in their working out if figures. The PCDA (P) is back to same old tricks of fooling the system. When the pension was fixed on the individuals drawing drawing salary as per 7CPC in the same rank and service and the salary has only increased by 3% per year since 2016, then how can pension work out lower than that for every rank. Secondly if some pensioner was drawing less pension than his predecessoorit was their duty to correct it as per OROP. Those who has failed to do it should be charged with dereliction of duty and punished and those deprived of this amount be paid back dated.
ReplyDeleteSir, Subedar y group table is not here Hav.table hi uski jagah par de rakhi h
ReplyDeleteWhy Govt is mixing two issues, revision of OROP 2 should have been completed before Jul 2019 which is mandated itself by Govt order of 2015 where as corrections on anamolies cited by OMJC and reported by many associations should have been corrected earlier or on later stage as per its own sense or under direction of Judiciary. Bringing up the anamolies created by them should have been burried and some heads should have rolled for creating such mesh from where they find themselves in pit as the mouth of Snake and chhachhundar tale.
ReplyDeleteCan some one guide me as I am MCPO I( equivalent MWO in Air Force) of X group (Navy) with 20+ yrs service, what is the proposed New Pension with effect from 1/1/2016.
ReplyDeletePleade intimate Proposed pension of Havildar Y group 17 years service
ReplyDeleteHow the pension can be lower w.r.t. post orop then pre orop.it means within this five years from 2014 to July 2019 no increment was for serving soldiers.please see the ppos of airforce retirees in 2017 and 2018 lower rank Sgt and below of y group,they are drawing more.
ReplyDeleteIs it true one Sgt of indian air force y gp having 20 yrs Q's retired on 31 mar 2017 drawing basic pension as 22350/ +da whichever.if you see about 2018 it must be +one increment near 26350/ bp per month.
DeleteRevised tables of OROP have no mention of commissioned ranks of lieutenants and captains in the tables of Officers as OROP tables gor officers starts from Major onwards.Does it mean that two commissioned ranks of Lieutenants and Captains have been abolishled orerroneously overlooked because there is no mention of their entitlement of pension In the tables.Earlier in the tables published in 2014 their pension was published at par with sub major granted honorary rank of captain wjich was blunder committed by chairman of OROP commission . PERMANANT COMMISSION GRANTED TO SL,SCO & RCOs retires as captains because of their age of superannuation but their rank of captain as commissioned officers by president of india is a gazetted rank and in no way it is at par with honorary rank granted to Jcos.This ambiguity needs rectification int revised OROP TABLE NOW PUBLISHED BY PCDA and the exact amount of pension admissible be published and included.in the REVISED OROP TABLE BY PCDA.
ReplyDeleteSTEP MOTHERLY TREATMENTDONE BY COMMISSION MAY BE DUE TO IGNORANCE OR PURPOSL NEEDS THE ATTENTION OF DEFENCE MINISTER PLEASE BECAUSE HONORARY RANK IS INFERIOR TO COMMISSIONED RANKS.FRESH TABLES OF OFFICERS WITH THE INCLUSION OF THESE TWO RANKS AT THE EARLIEST.
@ Iqbal33
DeleteWhere are these "revised" OROP tables?
Have you even read or understood what has been published on this blog?
The above slide which say new OROP If the base year is 2018.slide no 18 is for JCOS upto submajors and slide no 19 is for Icos starts from Major onwards.No mention of CAPTAINS.What is the purpose of these slides if these are not to be treated as tables.
DeleteDo you want to CAPTAIN RANK HAS BEEN ABOLISHED HENCE THE SLIDE STARTS FROM MAJORS ONWARDS.KINDLY CLARIFY OUR DOUBTS.
Pension for petty officer did 1992 after 15 yrs. As per 7cpc.
ReplyDeleteSir, Please amend rates of Subedar Y Group figures as per RTI reply because rates of Hav Y Group are reflected in Sub Y Group.
ReplyDeleteNeedful done. Thank you for noticing the error.
DeleteMy profuse apologies.
Thanks, Sir
DeleteFor kind attention of Iqbal33, Sir. Your comments regarding HCO'S is not acceptable to HCO'S. You mentioned that HCO'S are inferior to commissioned Rank instead you should have used Junior to Commissioned Officer. Please go through the 3/4/5 and 6th CPC report a Hony Capt was drawing more than a Major due to his long QS.
ReplyDelete@Iqbal33,
ReplyDeleteSir, these are a comparative sample provided by PCDA (P) to JS (ESW).
Revision of OROP is yet to take place and only then will the revised tables be issued.
Sir,
ReplyDeleteRegarded to E-pension
14419091N/Mar/7TH CPC16721
Forwarding of 7th CPC new e-pension payment order
New e-PPO No. 153201603559
14419091N Rank- Ex- HAV
Name- Ramlesh Kumar
Sir, please do not send me the e-PPO. Please take it up with your Record Office, if you have a doubt.
DeletePension once granted can't be reduced authority it self not having knowledge shameful
ReplyDeleteSir, nobody is reducing your pension. There is a settled law that unless the higher amount was obtained through fraud, it cannot be done.
DeleteSecondly, this is just a sample of calculations by PCDA (P). It is not final order.
So calm down.
Sir, What about a PO with 15 Yrs of QS of Indian Navy retired on 31.07.1990.
ReplyDeleteAS PER LAST PAY FIFTH PAY COMMISSION SUB MAJOR X GP PENSION IS 13590 NOTIONAL FIXED AS 13590X2=27180(23780+2000+1400) NOTIONAL PAY CALCULATION AS PER 7CPC IS 23780X2.57=61115 ASPER PAY MATRIX LABLE NO 8 IS 62200+5200(MSP)+6200(XCGP PAY)=73600. 50% PENSION IS 36800 HOW TO CALCULATE PAY MATRIX PAY 60400
ReplyDeleteThose who are "Waiving hands to Apachee from ground", on What grounds , they are claiming EQUAL MSP with those "Who are flying Apachee"?
ReplyDeleteIts like comparing (Groundnut = Cashewnut).
Sir,
ReplyDeleteThese tables seems to have been manipulated. Take case of Lt Col with 26 years of service in Table 30, OROP Rate x 2.57 as on 1.1.2016 is being shown as 84430
Pension as per 7th CPC provisions is being shown as 94100 which is manipulated. It seems in this case PCDA has intentionally taken an officer who retired post 2006. Had they taken a case of pre 1996 or 2006 retiree it would have much less. The figures have been manipulated in such a way that this method may appear better or as good as orop. It is done to mislead Defence Ministery.
Tables seem to be manipulated to prove their point of view that pension fixed as per concordance tables is equally good or even better than orop, which is absolutely wrong. Take example of Lt Col with 26 years of service in table 30 his pension as per concordance tables has been shown as Rs 94100. Intentionally PCDA has taken an example of post 2006 retiree whose basic pay at the time of retirement was between Rs 65260 and 67190. So his pay as per concordance tables comes to 172700 + MSP 15500. Hence his pension comes to 94100 which will be equal to revised OROP as per their table. Had they worked out as per 7th pay provisions for pre 2006 retirees, it would work out about Rs 12000 to 16000 less than orop.
ReplyDeleteCan India match "Social Security Schemes of USA for its Citizens "? If yes, say now AMOUNT! Rs 2000 is too small for it to be termed as SS Scheme.
ReplyDeletePlease provide the original copy of rti reply..
ReplyDeleteHow is it possible that pension of havildar 26.5 yr qs is less than the pension of havildar 17 yr qs in 2018??
ReplyDeleteIt seems manipulated table...
Strangingly how he managed to get proposed table through rti...??? Please reply
You are doing marvellous service.I look forward your inputs
ReplyDeleteOROP is to be upgraded every four years. Why is the update procedure made to appear so difficult ?
ReplyDeleteWhat about x group pbor tables
ReplyDeleteOne rank one pension revision 5 year's fir abtak nahi uha implementation
ReplyDelete