Tuesday 5 September 2017

Will Pension Concordance Tables for Armed Forces look something like this? Updated






Guesswork Concordance Tables

CAUTION:

1.        These tables may not be used in correspondence with any Public Authority such as MoD, CGDA, MoF etc.

2.        Please do not quote or use as a basis for any litigation/complaint/grievance.

3.        These are Basic Pay & Pension (minus DA/DR) figures just to give an idea based on figures available in SAI/SNI/SAFI based on Govt approved recommendations of 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th Pay Commissions 

4.        Please refer to Paras 4 and 5.1 of MoD letter No. 17 (01)/2017/(02)/D (Pension/Policy) dated 5th September 2017 for the correct procedure and Pension Concordance Tables in F No. 38 (37)/2016- P & PW (A) dated 6th July 2017 for the format.  

5. Please also see respective tables in the concordance tables for civilians.

Capt/Lt/Flt Lt
Component
4th Pay
4th Pension
5th Pay
5th Pension
6th Basic
6th Pay
6th Pension
7 CPC  Basic
Pension
Family Pension
Rk Pay/ Grade Pay/ MSP
200
400
6100/6000
15500
1
3000
1500
10000
5000
18600
30700
15350
61300
38400
23000
2
3100
1550
10300
5150
19350
31450
15725
63100
39300
23600
3
3200
1600
10600
5300
20120
32220
16110
65000
40300
24200
4
3300
1650
10900
5450
20910
33010
16505
67000
41300
24800
5
3400
1700
11200
5600
21730
33830
16915
69000
42300
25400
6
3500
1750
11500
5750
22570
34670
17335
71100
43300
26000
7
3600
1800
11800
5900
23440
35540
17770
73200
44400
26600
8
3700
1850
12100
6050
24330
36430
18215
75400
45500
27300
9
3800
1900
12400
6200
25250
37350
18675
77700
46600
28000
10
3900
1950
12700
6350
26200
38300
19150
80000
47800
28700
11
4000
2000
13000
6500
27170
39270
19635
82400
49000
29400
12
4100
2050
13300
6650
28170
40270
20135
84900
50200
30100
13
4200
2100
13600
6800
29200
41300
20650
87400
51500
30900
14
4300
2150
13900
6950
30260
42360
21180
90000
52800
31700
15
4400
2200
14200
7100
31360
43460
21730
92700
54100
32500
16
4500
2250
14500
7250
32490
44590
22295
95500
55500
33300
17
4600
2300
14800
7400
33650
45750
22875
98400
57000
34200
18
4700
2350


34850
46950
23475
101400
58500
35100
19
4800
2400


36080
48180
24090
104400
60000
36000
20
4900
2450


37350
49450
24725
107500
61500
36900
21
5000
2500





110700
63100
37900
22
5100
2550





114000
64800
38900
23
5200
2600





117400
66500
39900
24
5300
2650





120900
68200
40900
25







124500
70000
42000
26







128200
71900
43100
27







132000
73800
44300
28







136000
75800
45500
29







140100
77800
46700
30







144300
79900
47900
31







148600
82100
49200
32







153100
84300
50600
33







157700
86600
52000
34







162400
89000
53400
35







167300
91400
54800
36







172300
93900
56300
37







177500
96500
57900
38







182800
99200
59500
39







188300
101900
61100
40







193900
104700
62800













Maj/Lt Cdr/Sqn Ldr
Component
4th Pay
4th Pension
5th Pay
5th Pension
6th Basic
6th Pay
6th Pension
7 CPC  Basic
Pension
Family Pension
Rk Pay/Grade Pay/ MSP
600
1200
6600/6000
15500
1
4000
2000
12800
6400
23810
36410
18205
69400
42500
25500
2
4100
2050
13125
6563
24730
37330
18665
71500
43500
26100
3
4200
2100
13450
6725
25670
38270
19135
73600
44600
26700
4
4300
2150
13775
6888
26640
39240
19620
75800
45700
27400
5
4400
2200
14100
7050
27640
40240
20120
78100
46800
28100
6
4500
2250
14425
7213
28670
41270
20635
80400
48000
28800
7
4600
2300
14750
7375
29730
42330
21165
82800
49200
29500
8
4700
2350
15075
7538
30820
43420
21710
85300
50400
30200
9
4800
2400
15400
7700
31950
44550
22275
87900
51700
31000
10
4900
2450
15725
7863
33110
45710
22855
90500
53000
31800
11
5000
2500
16050
8025
34310
46910
23455
93200
54400
32600
12
5100
2550


35540
48140
24070
96000
55800
33500
13
5200
2600


36810
49410
24705
98900
57200
34300
14
5300
2650


38120
50720
25360
101900
58700
35200
15
5400
2700


39470
52070
26035
105000
60300
36200
16
5500
2750


40860
53460
26730
108200
61900
37100
17
5600
2800


42290
54890
27445
111400
63500
38100
18
5700
2850


43760
56360
28180
114700
65100
39100
19




45280
57880
28940
118100
66800
40100
20




46840
59440
29720
121600
68600
41100
21







125200
70400
42200
22







129000
72300
43400
23







132900
74200
44500
24







136900
76200
45700
25







141000
78300
47000
26







145200
80400
48200
27







149600
82600
49500
28







154100
84800
50900
29







158700
87100
52300
30







163500
89500
53700
31







168400
92000
55200
32







173500
94500
56700
33







178700
97100
58300
34







184100
99800
59900
35







189600
102600
61500
36







195300
105400
63200
37







201200
108400
65000
38







207200
111400
66800

Lt Col/Cdr/Wg Cdr
Component
4th Pay
4th Pension
5th Pay
5th Pension
6th Basic
6th Pay
6th Pension
7 CPC  Basic
7th Pension
Family Pension
Rk Pay/ Grade Pay/ MSP
800
1600
8000/6000
15500
1
4700
2350
15100
7550
38530
52530
26265
121200
68400
41000
2
4800
2400
15500
7750
39930
53930
26965
124800
70200
42100
3
4900
2450
15900
7950
41370
55370
27685
128500
72000
43200
4
5000
2500
16300
8150
42860
56860
28430
132400
74000
44400
5
5100
2550
16700
8350
44390
58390
29195
136400
76000
45600
6
5200
2600
17100
8550
45970
59970
29985
140500
78000
46800
7
5300
2650
17500
8750
47590
61590
30795
144700
80100
48100
8
5400
2700
17900
8950
49260
63260
31630
149000
82300
49400
9
5500
2750
18300
9150
50980
64980
32490
153500
84500
50700
10
5600
2800
18700
9350
52750
66750
33375
158100
86800
52100
11
5700
2850


54580
68580
34290
162800
89200
53500
12
5800
2900


56460
70460
35230
167700
91600
55000
13
5900
2950


58400
72400
36200
172700
94100
56500
14




60400
74400
37200
177900
96700
58000
15




62460
76460
38230
183200
99400
59600
16




64580
78580
39290
188700
102100
61300
17




66760
80760
40380
194400
105000
63000
18




69010
83010
41500
200200
107900
64700
19







206200
110900
66500
20







212400
114000
68400

Col/Capt/Gp Capt
Component
4th Pay
4th Pension
5th Pay
5th Pension
6th Basic
6th Pay
6th Pension
7 CPC  Basic
7th Pension
Family Pension
Rk Pay/ Grade Pay/ MSP
1000
2000
8700/6000
15500
1
5500
2750
17000
8500
40890
55590
27795
130600
73100
43800
2
5600
2800
17450
8725
42380
57080
28540
134500
75000
45000
3
5700
2850
17900
8950
43920
58620
29310
138500
77000
46200
4
5800
2900
18350
9175
45500
60200
30100
142700
79100
47500
5
5900
2950
18800
9400
47130
61830
30915
147000
81300
48800
6
6000
3000
19250
9625
48810
63510
31755
151400
83500
50100
7
6100
3050
19700
9850
50540
65240
32620
155900
85700
51400
8
6200
3100
20150
10075
52320
67020
33510
160600
88100
52800
9
6300
3150
20600
10300
54160
68860
34430
165400
90500
54300
10
6400
3200
21050
10525
56050
70750
35375
170400
93000
55800
11
6500
3250


58000
72700
36350
175500
95500
57300
12
6600
3300


60010
74710
37355
180800
98200
58900
13
6700
3350


62080
76780
38390
186200
100900
60500
14




64210
78910
39455
191800
103700
62200
15




66400
81100
40550
197600
106600
63900
16




68660
83360
40850
203500
109500
65700
17




70990
85690
40850
209600
112600
67500
18




73390
88090
40850
215900
115700
69400

Brig/Cmde/Air Cmde
Component
4th Pay
4th Pension
5th Pay
5th Pension
6th Basic
6th Pay
6th Pension
7 CPC  Basic
7th Pension
Family Pension
Rk Pay/ Grade Pay/ MSP
1200
2400
8900/6000
15500
1
6150
3075
19100
9550
43390
58290
29145
139600
77600
46500
2
6300
3150
19550
9775
44960
59860
29930
143800
79700
47800
3
6450
3225
20000
10000
46580
61480
30740
148100
81800
49100
4
6600
3300
20450
10225
48250
63150
31575
152500
84000
50400
5
6750
3375
20900
10450
49970
64870
32435
157100
86300
51800
6
6900
3450
21350
10675
51740
66640
33320
161800
88700
53200
7
7050
3525
21800
10900
53560
68460
34230
166700
91100
54700
8
7200
3600
22250
11125
55440
70340
35170
171700
93600
56200
9
7350
3675
22700
11350
57380
72280
36140
176900
96200
57700
10


23150
11575
59370
74270
37135
182200
98900
59300
11




61420
76320
38160
187700
101600
61000
12




63530
78430
39215
193300
104400
62600
13




65710
80610
40305
199100
107300
64400
14




67950
82850
40950
205100
110300
66200
15




70260
85160
40950
211300
113400
68000
16




72640
87540
40950
217600
116600
69900

Maj Gen/R Adm/AVM
Component
4th Pay
4th Pension
5th Pay
5th Pension
6th Basic
6th Pay
6th Pension
7 CPC  Basic
7th Pension
Family Pension
Rk Pay/ Grade Pay/ MSP
Nil
Nil
10000/Nil
15500
1
5900
2950
18400
9200
50700
60700
30350
144200
72100
43300
2
6100
3050
18900
9450
52530
62530
31265
148500
74300
44600
3
6300
3150
19400
9700
54410
64410
32205
153000
76500
45900
4
6500
3250
19900
9950
56350
66350
33175
157600
78800
47300
5
6700
3350
20400
10200
58350
68350
34175
162300
81200
48700
6
6850
3425
20900
10450
60410
70410
35205
167200
83600
50200
7
7000
3500
21400
10700
62530
72530
36265
172200
86100
51700
8
7150
3575
21900
10950
64710
74710
37355
177400
88700
53200
9
7300
3650
22400
11200
66960
76960
38480
182700
91400
54800
10




69270
79270
38500
188200
94100
56500
11




71650
81650
38500
193800
96900
58100
12




74100
84100
38500
199600
99800
59900
13




76630
86630
38500
205600
102800
61700
14




79230
89230
38500
211800
105900
63500
15




81910
91910
38500
218200
109100
65500

Lt Gen/V Adm/AM
Component
4th Pay
4th Pension
5th Pay
5th Pension
6th Basic
6th Pay
6th Pension
7 CPC  Basic
7th Pension
Family Pension
Rk Pay/Grade Pay/ MSP
Nil
Nil
Nil
Nil
1
7300
3650
22400
11200
69000
69000
34500
182200
91100
54700
2
7400
3700
22950
11475
71070
71070
35535
187700
93900
56300
3
7500
3750
23500
11750
73210
73210
36605
193300
96700
58000
4
7600
3800
24050
12025
75410
75410
37705
199100
99600
59700
5
7700
3850
24600
12300
77680
77680
38840
205100
102600
61500
6
7800
3900
25150
12575
80020
80020
39500
211300
105700
63400
7
7900
3950
25700
12850
82430
82430
39500
217600
108800
65300
8
8000
4000
26250
13125
84910
84910
39500
224100
112100
67200

Lt Gen/V Adm/AM : HAG+
Component
4th Pay
4th Pension
5th Pay
5th Pension
6th Basic
6th Pay
6th Pension
7 CPC  Basic
7th Pension
Family Pension
Rk Pay/Grade Pay/ MSP
Nil
Nil
Nil
Nil
1




75500
75500
37750
205400
102700
61600
2




77770
77770
38885
211600
105800
63500
3




80110
80110
40000
217900
109000
65400
4




82520
82520
40000
224400
112200
67300

Vice Chiefs/Army/Navy/Air Force Commanders-in-Chief  
Component
4th Pay
4th Pension
5th Pay
5th Pension
6th Basic
6th Pay
6th Pension
7 CPC  Basic
7th Pension
Family Pension
Rk Pay/Grade Pay/ MSP
Nil
Nil
Nil
Nil
1
 8000
 4000
 26000
13000
80000
80000
40000
225000
125000
67500














20 comments:

  1. Relating information in a previous post that Lt Col, Col, Brig are getting more pension (in excess of Rs 40000) than even Army Cdr as on 31.12.2015, will the concordance tables reflect truth? Will that result in higher pensions than shown in Circular 555? Please elucidate.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Sir,
    Thanks a lot. The tables are very explanatory.
    I have a query for you to consider.
    In the MoD Ltr you quoted at Para 4 above, an illustration is given at Annexure 1(Commissioned Officers). In that a Brig.’s (Equi) , (who retired during 6 CPC regime,) case with PIPB ( Pay in the Pay Band) of Rs.63150/- with GP of Rs. 8900/- and MSP of Rs.6000/- was given (at Ser.No.5). who retired on 31/05/2014(at Ser.No.1). The Corresponding Notional PIPM (Pay in the Pay Matrix) on 01/01/2016 was given as 187700/-( at Ser. No. 14).
    But in the tables provided by you, the Pay in Pay Band (PIPB) for Brig.(Equi), at Ser. No. 11(Stage 11.) there in is 61420/- and at Sr.No.12(Stage 12), it is 63530/-.
    There is no PIPB of 63150/- in the Tables provided by you.
    You had progressed the Pay in Pay Band (PIPB), of Brig.(Equi), starting from 58290/- which is the start in SAI 2/S/08 whereas the illustrated case in the Mod Ltr of 05 Sep 2017, referred at Para 4. Above, seems to have progressed the Pay in Pay Band(PIPB) from a different starting point, probably considering that the Brig.(Equi) had laterally entered the rank of Brig. after the commencement of 6CPC Regime. That is after 01/01/2006.
    The query, therefore is, will there be separate Tables for those who entered their final Retirement Rank, in the 6CPC, laterally, that is after the commencement of 6CPC?
    With kind regards.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Sir,

    The Guesswork tables are just that - Guesswork. Not being familiar with Excel (mine is Office 2003), I have not probably rounded off to the nearest or next multiple.

    Secondly, I have taken the minimum pay from the table in Circular 568 (Min Guaranteed Pension).

    Thirdly, there would be officers in each rank transiting from the 5th to 6th CPC with rank. All such officers were given one increment in the fixation.

    Maybe the illustration takes the start from the Pay Matrix which started lower without adding the one increment!

    As for you final query - may be!

    ReplyDelete
  4. Dear Sir,
    For Air Cmde, the max pay during the 4th CPC regime was Rs 5100 + Rs 1200 = Rs 6300. May be we can add two stagnation increments. So it comes to Rs 6600. But the table shows max pay as 8100 at row no. 14.
    Kindly amend the table.
    Veteran Wg Cdr Arvind Kumar

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sir,

      As the heading indicates it is just Guesswork fashioning something on the lines of the concordance tables of Civilians issued on 6th July 2017. It only takes basic pension and progresses it at the increment of each CPC. Maybe I will leave it to experts like you, and I mean it truly and honestly, to let us know when the PCDA (P) issues the tables. Hope you understand.

      Delete
    2. Sir,
      It is my duty to inform you that in the guesswork tables, the pay stages of Brig have been shown from Rs 6150 to 8100 whereas the stages shown for Maj Gen are from 5900 to 7300.
      Something is amiss.
      Warm regards,

      Delete
    3. No Wing Commander Arvind,nothing is amiss.

      Simply because the Rank Pay of Rs 1200 has been added for Brigadiers & equivalents. So Brig & equivalents start at Rs 4950 + RP 1200 = Rs 6150

      There is NO Rank Pay for Maj Gens and above.

      Delete
    4. Dear Wing Commander Arvind Kumar, these are Guesswork tables. These do not take into account the sort of expertise you appear to have in accounts and pay tables. The intention is to show arithmetically that Rank Pay and later MSP being denied to AVM and above are factors that highlight what you state - juniors will be paid more and draw higher pensions than seniors.

      Delete
  5. With due respect Sir you have accomplished a herculean task. This table will not have any major deviation but simplified the approach from pre 1986 0nwards in a table. warm regards

    ReplyDelete
  6. Sir, these are very interesting tables indeed. From the tables in the blog post it appears that for a Wg Cdr who retired with a BP of 17900/- during regime of V CPC with a service of app 29 years (revised BP after RP resolution), before implementation of Phase I recommendations of AV Singh Committee, would have a 7 CPC notional pay of 149000/- which, as per the matrix is the basic pay of a current Lt Col with a QS of approximately 21 years.

    The OROPx2.57 pension currently applicable to the same rank and and QS combination is slightly better as it corresponds to a 7 CPC pay of approximately 156800/161500 which would be the pay of a 7CPC Lt Col with a QS of 23 to 24 years, still short of QS of the V CPC retirees by about 6 years.

    I had tried to make a QS based comparison in this blog post.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sir, also the chart that shows a V CPC pension of 8550 corresponding to V CPC pay of 17100 for Lt Col could be looked at again. If the amount 17100 shown is the basic pay, then the V CPC pension would have been re-fixed (after resolution of Rank Pay matter) at 14145/- after factoring in all pensionable components.

      Delete
    2. Sir, the figure Rs 17100 is Rs 15500 + RP 1600 = Rs 17100. If the Basic is Rs 17100, please add Rs 1600 and you will see Rs 18700 etc etc.

      These tables (not chart) are all just using the basic principles: - add 40% to the 4th CPC (BP +RP); multiply 5th CPC (BP +RP) by 1.84; and multiply 6th CPC (PIPB+GP+MSP) by the IOR of 2.67. I have not added/considered DA/DR/stagnation increments etc because some might have one or two or the maximum stagnation increments, wherever applicable. Therefore, I presume a detailed concordance table will have all those but we will know the starting line.

      Delete
  7. Sir,
    Thanks for the effort put in by you in explaining everything so clear. I guess the pension does include commutable amount as it appears on the penultimate column. Some offrs have said that by multiplying the pension drawn as on 31.12.2015 by 2.57, has taken their total pension amount much higher than those retired in the same rank post-1.1.2016. If that be so, then this is a real anomaly and the concept of OROP which the Govt has claimed to have implemented falls flat on the face.It is besides the point that higher levels getting lower pension than the levels of Lt Col and Col. Can you please throw some light on this ?

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    Replies
    1. Para 6 of MoD letter 17(01)/2017/(02)/D (Pension/Policy) dated 5th September 2017, acknowledges this, thus," In case pension/family pension being paid with effect from 1.1.2016 is accordance with this Ministry's letter No. 17(01)/2016-D (Pen/Pol) dated 29.10.2016 happens to be higher than pension/family pension as worked out in accordance with Par 5 above, the pension/family pension already being paid shall be treated as revised pension/family pension with effect from 1.1.2016."

      In my ignorant opinion, the amounts in Circular 555 will need a relook. But the PCDA (P) may have another learned/informed opinion.

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    2. @ Young50 : "..I guess the pension does include commutable amount as it appears on the penultimate column. Some offrs have said that by multiplying the pension drawn as on 31.12.2015 by 2.57, has taken their total pension amount much higher than those retired in the same rank post-1.1.2016...."

      Of course the pension includes commutation amount. All tables on pensions reflect total pension. It always has been that way. Where's the doubt?

      And who are these people making claims their 2.57 times pre 2016 pension exceeds pensions of those retiring after 1st January 2016?

      Are they talking of OROP multiplied by 2.57 if they had retired before OROP came into being in 2014 or those retiring later? The whole statement is riddled with misleading and confusing issues.

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    3. I will revert back on the blog about little more details of someone claiming to be in receipt of more pension in pre-2016 regime than post-2016 period.Where is the Confusion,Riddles and Misleading Issues - Really not understood such adjectives. Nevertheless, it does not cost anything to be polite and humble if your age has not thought you this.I can well imagine what kind of person you would have been while in uniform. Kindly mellow down atleast before you become a speck of dust in this vast Universe. God Bless and Take Care.

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    4. @ Young50 :"..does not cost anything to be polite and humble if your age has not thought you this. I can well imagine what kind of person you would have been while in uniform. Kindly mellow down at least before you become a speck of dust in this vast Universe

      Bravo, Sir! Lessons in politeness, humility and a personal attack in response to a discussion on some far from clear notions expressed in a comment! One learns something new every day.

      Don't take this also the wrong way, but we're already specks in the universe and have been since we came into existence. Nothing for anyone to feel about in case the simple fact had not registered previously, now, is it?

      More to the point, since you raked up the matter, do share, if you can, tables of whose 6 CPC pension is lower than whose 31 Dec 2015 pension.

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  8. Sir,
    The GOI Letter F. No. 38/37/2016-P&PW(A) Dated 5th July, 2017
    Of Department of Pension & Pensioners' Welfare, under Ministry of Personnel, P.G. and Pensions provided Concordance Tables for Civil Officers .
    At Para 2. The letter says, “ 2. It was also provided that the revision of pension will be done by notional
    pay fixation under each intervening Pay Commission based on the formula for
    revision of pay. Based on the fitment tables provided by the Department of
    Expenditure, concordance tables for fixation of notional pay and pension / family
    pension of employees who retired/died in various grades during the 4th, 5th and
    5th Pay Commission periods have been prepared and the same are enclosed
    herewith.”
    In the MoD letter No 17(OI)/2017(02)/D(Pen/Policy) dated s" September 2017)
    It says the same as, “ 4. The aforesaid Committee has submitted its report and the recommendations
    made by the Committee have been considered by the Government. Accordingly, it
    has been decided that revised pension/ family pension of all Armed Forces
    Personnel who retired/ died prior to 1.1.2016, shall be revised by notionally fixing
    their pay in the pay matrix recommended by the 7th CPC in the level corresponding
    to the pay in the pay scale/ pay band and grade pay at which they retired/ died.
    This will be done by notional pay fixation under each intervening Pay Commission
    based on the formula for revision of pay.
    In the concordance Tables the method of Pay Fixation has been the same as given in the illustrations, at Page 9 of the MoD Letter.
    Even five increments in IV CPC, did not earn one increment in V CPC( I referred to Table 43 of the Concordance Tables).
    In the MoD Illustration at Page 9 too, the Col. Who retired in IV CPC Regime, with five increments, was fixed at the start of the Pay Scale, in VCPC Regime at 15100/-.
    From the above it appears that ‘fixing’ and ‘Refixing’ at each CPC Regime, will ultimately take the Pay in the Pay Scale to the ‘Minimum of Pay in the Pay Scale’.
    But while mapping the VCPC Pay into the Pay Band of VI CPC , three increments were given to the Col. In the Illustration at page 9 of the Mod Letter. No explanation is given in the illustration, as to how the Pay in the Pay scale of 15100/- was equated to a Pay in the Pay Band of 40800/- .
    It appears that some ‘lost’ pay in the previous CPC Regimes was regained while ‘refixing’ in the Pay in Pay Band of VI CPC.
    One feature in the Concordance Tables for Civilian Pay, which was not explained anywhere, is the consideration of Minimum and Maximum Pays of retirees, in the VI CPC Regime, and then ‘refixing’ of past retirees at the Maximum. This is akin to the OROP. But the in the OROP it was the average of Minimum and Maximum., that the past retirees got.
    The MoD Letter of 05 Sep 2017, does not talk of considering the ‘Minimum’ and ‘Maximum’ pays of Retirees in the VI CPC Regime.
    ‘First Formulation ( Option-1)”, may be , therefore lesser than the OROP pensions of Circular 555., as modified by Circular 570.
    Penmil

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  9. Please see Annexure I to SAI 3/S/2008 regarding transition from 5th CPC to 6th CPC. For your convenience it is in the next post as I do not know how to keep the tabular form in this reply.

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  10. Sir,
    Thanks.
    much grateful for the prompt answer.
    With kind regards

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